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EU Referendum - La Deuxième Partie

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  • EU Referendum - La Deuxième Partie

    the campaign has continued with ever more dire warnings about how, on the one hand, brexit will cause war, pestilence and famine, and on the other, how remain will cause the entire population of turkey to set up home in south east england. the polls put remain somewhat in front, and it seems that the remain campaign has done best as its position has improved considerably since april. there are still many undecided voters, however. curiously, telephone polling seems to favour remain, whereas online polling tends to favour leave.

    interestingly, the fractures within the tory party are becoming ever more apparent, and unless remain wins convincingly, cameron may well face a leadership challenge very soon after the vote.

    two tory MPs called for his resignation today.
    "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

    "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

  • #2
    Good, I hope leave wins and the Tories get shattered over the brass choosing to stay. The Pound has saved Britain.
    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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    • #3
      Listening to Boris and Iain or Duncan Smith talk about David being too posh to care about migrants would be funny if it weren't so sad.
      One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

      Comment


      • #4
        yes, although a bunch of posh boys accusing each other of being too posh to understand the working classes is a central part of british politics. it also sounds rather hollow when one considers that more non-EU migrants than EU migrants came to the UK last year.
        "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

        "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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        • #5
          It's a known fact that facts are dangerous to both campaigns, and should be avoided at all costs.
          One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

          Comment


          • #6
            Halt ze German advance!

            Blah

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BeBro View Post
              One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

              Comment


              • #8
                both sides have certainly made liberal use of world war 2 (and other war) references during the campaign. i sometimes wonder if we need another war in europe to get people to shut up about the last one.
                "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by C0ckney View Post
                  both sides have certainly made liberal use of world war 2 (and other war) references during the campaign. i sometimes wonder if we need another war in europe to get people to shut up about the last one.
                  Yes, because the Daily Mail never invokes Waterloo, Agincourt or the Armada....

                  This month, we celebrate the bicentenary of Waterloo, fought on June 18, 1815, the most famous military victory in Britain’s history, writes MAX HASTINGS.


                  WATERLOO: Why every Briton should savour this blood-soaked victory that France wants to pretend never happened, writes MAX HASTINGS

                  At present there is something missing from the 'Out' campaign. It is crying out for inspirational leadership, writes anti-Brussels veteran and former Tory party chairman Lord Tebbit.


                  LORD TEBBIT: We've seen off Hitler and the Armada. So let's see off EU!


                  The Battle of Agincourt, which took place 600 years ago this month, is remembered with huge national pride as one of England’s greatest military triumph.


                  Massacre of Les Snobs: On the 600th anniversary of Agincourt, how snooty French nobles too posh for our peasants handed us our finest hour
                  One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by C0ckney View Post
                    both sides have certainly made liberal use of world war 2 (and other war) references during the campaign. i sometimes wonder if we need another war in europe to get people to shut up about the last one.
                    Unrelated to that, but the talk about "German domination" of the EU is always kinda amusing.

                    There might be *some* point in economic matters, because there Germany has a lot of weight to throw (esp. if others - France - don't do so well), but in many other fields there's not much to it. Just take the refugee crisis - Austria and a couple of others just did largely ignore what Merkel wanted and there was nothing she could do about it.

                    (It even helped her to save face, she can still be all about "open borders" but otoh certainly profits from the numbers of refugees going down, at least for now)
                    Blah

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dauphin View Post
                      Yes, because the Daily Mail never invokes Waterloo, Agincourt or the Armada....

                      This month, we celebrate the bicentenary of Waterloo, fought on June 18, 1815, the most famous military victory in Britain’s history, writes MAX HASTINGS.


                      WATERLOO: Why every Briton should savour this blood-soaked victory that France wants to pretend never happened, writes MAX HASTINGS

                      At present there is something missing from the 'Out' campaign. It is crying out for inspirational leadership, writes anti-Brussels veteran and former Tory party chairman Lord Tebbit.


                      LORD TEBBIT: We've seen off Hitler and the Armada. So let's see off EU!


                      The Battle of Agincourt, which took place 600 years ago this month, is remembered with huge national pride as one of England’s greatest military triumph.


                      Massacre of Les Snobs: On the 600th anniversary of Agincourt, how snooty French nobles too posh for our peasants handed us our finest hour
                      yes, that's a fair point.

                      Originally posted by BeBro View Post
                      Unrelated to that, but the talk about "German domination" of the EU is always kinda amusing.

                      There might be *some* point in economic matters, because there Germany has a lot of weight to throw (esp. if others - France - don't do so well), but in many other fields there's not much to it. Just take the refugee crisis - Austria and a couple of others just did largely ignore what Merkel wanted and there was nothing she could do about it.

                      (It even helped her to save face, she can still be all about "open borders" but otoh certainly profits from the numbers of refugees going down, at least for now)
                      from a UK perspective, it's a combination of factors. germany is the largest economy, the most populous state, and thus certainly wields plenty of power. germany is also a convenient 'enemy' to bring up (2 world wars and 1 world cup! ). and then there's the whole refugee crisis, which many seek to blame on merkel. of course such an analysis ignores the various political issues on which the UK and germany agree and indeed have been working on together for many years; but the level of public debate on europe doesn't allow for a nuanced picture.
                      "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                      "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        U.K. GDP and population has a strong chance of surpassing Germany's within 20 years. The U.K. could assume the 'dominant' position - France's, and to the extent it's even relevant Italy's, power will decline further. However, even if the U.K. were equally 'dominant' there would be a view that it was not. The national psyche works on a basis that Europe can't be tamed, only defeated and divided. The rest of the world is the land of opportunity.
                        One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          UK can save EU by exiting, or even better - save Europe again.

                          It is such a sham of a project that there can be no "internal" repair, it is beyond repair and sooner it breaks up, less painful will it be.

                          The chance to save it was there from 2007 to 2012, all they managed is ESM... after that it (EU) was pretty much done - in my view off course, the next decade will show whether this is true, and if Europe can do better, but I am highly sceptical at this stage.
                          Last edited by OneFootInTheGrave; May 31, 2016, 11:05.
                          Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                          GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave View Post
                            UK can save EU by exiting, or even better - save Europe again.

                            It is such a sham of a project that there can be no "internal" repair, it is beyond repair and sooner it breaks up, less painful will it be.

                            The chance to save it was there from 2007 to 2012, all they managed is ESM... after that it (EU) was pretty much done - in my view off course, the next decade will show whether this is true, and if Europe can do better, but I am highly sceptical at this stage.
                            The complete lack of democratic accountability of the executive, the contempt for ordinary people who have the wrong opinions, the rerunning of polls until they get the result they want - this organisation has as much chance of being reformed as FIFA. Tear it down and start again.

                            It's so often assumed that all opposition to the EU in Britain is automatically down to negative factors like xenophobia and parochialism, rather than being based on a strong democratic impulse. Opposing the EU isn't the same as being anti-Europe, it is opposing an elitist, arrogant and unelected ruling class. There can be a better Europe, but not under this model.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cort Haus View Post
                              The complete lack of democratic accountability of the executive, the contempt for ordinary people who have the wrong opinions, the rerunning of polls until they get the result they want - this organisation has as much chance of being reformed as FIFA. Tear it down and start again.

                              It's so often assumed that all opposition to the EU in Britain is automatically down to negative factors like xenophobia and parochialism, rather than being based on a strong democratic impulse. Opposing the EU isn't the same as being anti-Europe, it is opposing an elitist, arrogant and unelected ruling class. There can be a better Europe, but not under this model.
                              QFT
                              In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

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