Calirofrnia has about 1 years worth of water left

[Hauldren Collider]

What bizarre world did you two grow up in where the price of food and water don't have very real impacts on peoples lives? Seriously, is this another one of your incredibly poor taste trolls? Because I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone could be quite as out of touch, callous and downright ****ing stupid as you're both being.

What ****ing looney tunes planet do you live on where the price of water is anything other than effectively zero for the purposes of domestic consumption, even at market clearing rates?

[kentonio]

What ****ing looney tunes planet do you live on where the price of water is anything other than effectively zero for the purposes of domestic consumption, even at market clearing rates?

Hmm, let's see..

Annual rate increases quickly build over time. Since 2010, average prices rose 33 percent for the index, the equivalent of adding $US 15 per month to a $US 45 water bill.

Residents in some areas are paying even more. Prices in five cities – Austin, Charlotte, Chicago, San Francisco, and Tucson – ballooned more than 50 percent over five years. Chicago’s increase, for instance, is part of a municipal water investment plan, initiated in 2011, to double rates over four years, primarily to replace dilapidated pipes, some a century old.

These examples are striking, but they are increasingly common, as the cost of water outpaces the cost of other staple household goods, reckons Bill Stannard, president of Raftelis, a rates consultancy.

“What we’re seeing now, for the foreseeable future, is that the annual increase in revenue will exceed the Consumer Price Index by double on average,” Stannard told Circle of Blue. “That’s how much revenue will be needed to fund utilities.”

http://www.circleofblue.org/waternew...se-since-2010/

[C0ckney]

some of the arguments in this thread are ridiculous, to the point where HC is the one making the most sense here. the problem is a lack of water - this cannot be solved by keeping water cheap!

the solution is obviously not subsidising unsustainable and frankly ruinous activities. the solution is to cut wasteful domestic consumption (through incentives and also price increases), to capture as much rainwater as possible and to reuse grey water. it takes 4 litres of water to produce a single almond; it takes 15,500 litres of water to produce 1kg of beef. the solution is to change the way we do agriculture, to change what is produced to match the climatic conditions, to eat less meat, to move away from water intensive monocultues etc.

[Jon Miller]

I have for a long time been more concerned about water than temperature.

JM

[Hauldren Collider]

The average household pays $15 to $45 a month for water!




Yeah, that's basically 0. Particularly when you consider how many people have lawn sprinklers. I know our water bill. It's similar to that. Like 95% of it is the sprinkler.

Just how ****ing poor do you think america is that they're gonna die of thirst if you make the price go up, rather than just, I don't know, use a little less of their domestic appliances? Restaurants give you a glass of water for free, public water fountains are available for free, that's all you need to know.

[ZEE]

OMG I DON'T WAN'T TO DIE OF THIRST YOU GUISE!

[Hauldren Collider]

Another data point: Water use isn't even included itemized in our utility bill every month at my apartment. It's too small to note.

[regexcellent]

What bizarre world did you two grow up in where the price of food and water don't have very real impacts on peoples lives? Seriously, is this another one of your incredibly poor taste trolls? Because I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone could be quite as out of touch, callous and downright ****ing stupid as you're both being.

The world where the food grown in California is mostly not staple crops, and can be imported from elsewhere. They grow fruit and vegetables there, not wheat or corn.

[The Mad Monk]

Please don't drink the water coming out of your dehumidifier.

...or, if you must, use one of these.

Most water use is from farming. If we grow fewer cranberries this year, well...people will eat fewer cranberries. Oh well. Better yet, fewer people will water their lawns.

If the price rises it'll make desalination more economical.

True dat.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

some of the arguments in this thread are ridiculous, to the point where HC is the one making the most sense here. the problem is a lack of water - this cannot be solved by keeping water cheap!

the solution is obviously not subsidising unsustainable and frankly ruinous activities. the solution is to cut wasteful domestic consumption (through incentives and also price increases), to capture as much rainwater as possible and to reuse grey water. it takes 4 litres of water to produce a single almond; it takes 15,500 litres of water to produce 1kg of beef. the solution is to change the way we do agriculture, to change what is produced to match the climatic conditions, to eat less meat, to move away from water intensive monocultues etc.

Why would you do that when you can build 1000 desalination plants, dozen nuclear power plants, and have all the water with no greehouse emissions? On this planet, without WWIII, US/western consumption culture will not change, building the infrastructure is a lot more realistic.

[C0ckney]

I have for a long time been more concerned about water than temperature.

JM

it's certainly going to be a more immediate issue. we see it at the moment in the big cities here. the water is running out; we've just had a 'wet' season in which very little rain fell and the reservoirs are low. there are no serious efforts being made to reduce domestic consumption or capture rainwater. people are content to complain that the government hasn't done enough, that the infrastructure is lacking - all of which is true, but none of which will do anything to solve the looming water crisis.

what happens to a city with 20 million people when industry stops for lack of water, when there's a 2 days on, 5 days off rationing system for residences. unless we have a rainy winter, we're one dry season away from finding out.

[Jon Miller]

The biggest issue is that I suspect that there is water to water lawns (for wealthy people) and so on...

Until suddenly there is not enough water. And that means not enough to grow, it isn't (I think) a really gradual thing (because it is so cheap to get).

And this isn't happening in just one location, it is happening most places.

So in a few years, we face a global water shortage, meaning a global food shortage.

Not some inherent thing because of overpopulation. But a 'sin' due to our greed and selfishness and gluttony.

Suddenly there is not (clean) water for anyone (but the really rich) and we are starving. We would building desalination plants/etc, but this would not make water cheap enough to provide the cheap food that the earth can provide.

And it would take some massive change for decades for the earth to recover (maybe longer, water pollution can stay for a long time).

(I should make sure that I have access to living in a place with enough water, like Patagonia or Washington state).

JM

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Someone always have to bite the bullet first. The world is not organized as well as the Nordics, so after it hits one region, when people start leaving, house prices collapse, followed by the local economy, it will be too late for that one - waiting a few years for desalination plants to come on-line will not exactly be an option for a lot of people then.

The only hope is that after the first hit, other exposed region governments will take not and start investing on time.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Also in the terms of "starvation", food prices will go up, but they will still be well within the reach of the "western" populations, even the poor here - it will be the developing world which depends either on local climate conditions being bearable or on aid of some sort that will suffer most.

[regexcellent]

Water isn't a global commodity. There will never be a global water shortage because there is no market for water beyond individual watersheds. In Rochester, for instance, we get water from the Genessee River and Lake Ontario. Neither one of those is going to dry up ever. The farms around here (corn, dairy, apples) will not be lacking for irrigation. There are enough different places on the planet growing food that droughts in one region are balanced out by floods in others.

Reminder to everyone that people eat mostly grains, and those aren't grown in California. They're doing okay this year.