Michael Brown - the 'kid' shot by cops 4 days ago in the US, who might have been unarmed and maybe was not fighting the cops.

[rah]

the chief answered "Oh God" and said the riot police were from St. Louis County and likely "didn't know any better."

[Imran Siddiqui]

If the goal is to provide an effective threat against a tyrannical government, then the full range of military hardware available to armies needs to be available to the citizenry. Police departments are going to roll in with APC's and MRAP's.

It was more because he felt police were less likely to shoot and kill innocents if they thought those folks were actually armed.

[ColdWizard]

If the goal is to provide an effective threat against a tyrannical government, then the full range of military hardware available to armies needs to be available to the citizenry. Police departments are going to roll in with APC's and MRAP's.

Imagine the number of technicals rednecks would be able to supply.

[Sava]

It was more because he felt police were less likely to shoot and kill innocents if they thought those folks were actually armed.

Ah, I see. Well, that's probably true. Police didn't seem to want to mess with those Cliven Bundy folks.

[Sava]

Imagine the number of technicals rednecks would be able to supply.

just thinking about this makes me want to play C&C Generals

[Imran Siddiqui]

We may need a new thread title - "When the St. Louis tanks enter Ferguson"

[Sava]

[lightblue]

From over here in the UK it is very weird to see the full militarisation of the police in the US. How often do American police actually need to use armoured personnel carriers, drones and machine guns? You want the police as people you can come to for protection rather than hide way from because they're pelleting you with baton rounds.

[Guynemer]

How often do American police actually need to use armoured personnel carriers, drones and machine guns?

The next time will be the first.

[Sava]

The shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown is an awful tragedy that continues to send shockwaves through the community of Ferguson, Missouri and across the nation.
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If I had been told to get out of the street as a teenager, there would have been a distinct possibility that I might have smarted off. But, I wouldn’t have expected to be shot.

The outrage in Ferguson is understandable—though there is never an excuse for rioting or looting. There is a legitimate role for the police to keep the peace, but there should be a difference between a police response and a military response.

The images and scenes we continue to see in Ferguson resemble war more than traditional police action.

Glenn Reynolds, in Popular Mechanics, recognized the increasing militarization of the police five years ago. In 2009 he wrote:

Soldiers and police are supposed to be different. … Police look inward. They’re supposed to protect their fellow citizens from criminals, and to maintain order with a minimum of force.

It’s the difference between Audie Murphy and Andy Griffith. But nowadays, police are looking, and acting, more like soldiers than cops, with bad consequences. And those who suffer the consequences are usually innocent civilians.

The Cato Institute’s Walter Olson observed this week how the rising militarization of law enforcement is currently playing out in Ferguson:

Why armored vehicles in a Midwestern inner suburb? Why would cops wear camouflage gear against a terrain patterned by convenience stores and beauty parlors? Why are the authorities in Ferguson, Mo. so given to quasi-martial crowd control methods (such as bans on walking on the street) and, per the reporting of Riverfront Times, the firing of tear gas at people in their own yards? (“‘This my property!’ he shouted, prompting police to fire a tear gas canister directly at his face.”) Why would someone identifying himself as an 82nd Airborne Army veteran, observing the Ferguson police scene, comment that “We rolled lighter than that in an actual warzone”?

Olson added, “the dominant visual aspect of the story, however, has been the sight of overpowering police forces confronting unarmed protesters who are seen waving signs or just their hands.”

How did this happen?

Most police officers are good cops and good people. It is an unquestionably difficult job, especially in the current circumstances.

There is a systemic problem with today’s law enforcement.

Not surprisingly, big government has been at the heart of the problem. Washington has incentivized the militarization of local police precincts by using federal dollars to help municipal governments build what are essentially small armies—where police departments compete to acquire military gear that goes far beyond what most of Americans think of as law enforcement.

This is usually done in the name of fighting the war on drugs or terrorism. The Heritage Foundation’s Evan Bernick wrote in 2013 that, “the Department of Homeland Security has handed out anti-terrorism grants to cities and towns across the country, enabling them to buy armored vehicles, guns, armor, aircraft, and other equipment.”

Bernick continued, “federal agencies of all stripes, as well as local police departments in towns with populations less than 14,000, come equipped with SWAT teams and heavy artillery.”

Bernick noted the cartoonish imbalance between the equipment some police departments possess and the constituents they serve, “today, Bossier Parish, Louisiana, has a .50 caliber gun mounted on an armored vehicle. The Pentagon gives away millions of pieces of military equipment to police departments across the country—tanks included.”

When you couple this militarization of law enforcement with an erosion of civil liberties and due process that allows the police to become judge and jury—national security letters, no-knock searches, broad general warrants, pre-conviction forfeiture—we begin to have a very serious problem on our hands.

Given these developments, it is almost impossible for many Americans not to feel like their government is targeting them. Given the racial disparities in our criminal justice system, it is impossible for African-Americans not to feel like their government is particularly targeting them.

This is part of the anguish we are seeing in the tragic events outside of St. Louis, Missouri. It is what the citizens of Ferguson feel when there is an unfortunate and heartbreaking shooting like the incident with Michael Brown.

Anyone who thinks that race does not still, even if inadvertently, skew the application of criminal justice in this country is just not paying close enough attention. Our prisons are full of black and brown men and women who are serving inappropriately long and harsh sentences for non-violent mistakes in their youth.

The militarization of our law enforcement is due to an unprecedented expansion of government power in this realm. It is one thing for federal officials to work in conjunction with local authorities to reduce or solve crime. It is quite another for them to subsidize it.

Americans must never sacrifice their liberty for an illusive and dangerous, or false, security. This has been a cause I have championed for years, and one that is at a near-crisis point in our country.

Let us continue to pray for Michael Brown’s family, the people of Ferguson, police, and citizens alike.

http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-ferguson-police/

Rand Paul


I'd be cool with him as President if Congress was in Democratic hands.

[Donegeal]

What's the conservative viewpoint on this?

I'll bite, but I'm not a 'conservative'; I just understand what the police are doing more than most.

Are you guys more "the black guy deserved it"?
or
'The government is evil and trampling on rights'?
(I'm referring more to the police response, firing rubber bullets into the crowd, teargas at journalists, and arresting them unlawfully)

This is an investigation. Investigations, particularly ones that will be as difficult as this one involving a number of departments/offices, take time. I know the people want info, but the police need to make sure they have the correct information and the correct order of events before they put out anything. Sensationalist media has put out half truths and opinions and reported them as facts. This has caused the uproar which was the cause of these further problems. The investigation has probably not only been delayed, but most likely compromised because of everything that has happened since.

Now about the response to what has happened, well, the people had started rioting. Maybe your definition of rioting is different than mine, but flipping cars, smashing windows and looting stores pretty much covers mine. What do you do during a riot? You suppress it. You stop it. You can't let it go on. Otherwise you have anarchy. The police are trying to maintain order and keep people safe. Yes, that means they are shutting down McDonalds that happen to be near the epicenter. Yes, it means when they tell you to leave an establishment as it is closed, you get up and leave, not argue with them about it. And when they ask you for ID, you give it to them. It also means that if you refuse to do so, you will be detained (not arrested as the sensationalist reporter stated). It also means that when angry crowds, incited by the media, are chanting "Fight the cops!" or "Kill the cops!" and then someone starts to throw stuff at them, the tear gas, rubber bullets and bean bags are going to be returned.

I know I'm missing some details, but this is just what I have so far.

[Sava]

Donegeal
(for the response anyways, your perspective is garbage)

[Sava]

Is this just more "sensationalism"?

http://instagram.com/p/rq9aHsiruj/

She was shot by a beanbag round while praying.

[Felch]

What's the conservative viewpoint on this?

Are you guys more "the black guy deserved it"?
or
'The government is evil and trampling on rights'?
(I'm referring more to the police response, firing rubber bullets into the crowd, teargas at journalists, and arresting them unlawfully)

Or is there a split?
If so, what's the split?

When I first heard of it, it sounded like a ****ed up accident. The more we see of the police response, the more I think the people should rise up and start hunting down cops. That riot gear won't stop rifle rounds.

[Donegeal]

How so?