Ashers Baking Company: 'Gay cake' row could end up in court

[MrFun]

Elok hates it when I follow up in responding to a point he made. Or maybe he's kinda "slow" and cannot follow a conversation?

He made the point that a case ruling like this would mean gay couples can force others who may hate/dislike them, to provide service to them. So I followed up saying that this is essentially what the Civil Rights movement in the 1950s and 60s has done.

I'm not sure how he stretched my statement to mean that what gay people today suffer from, is exactly on the same caliber/level that blacks suffered from before and during the Civil Rights movement.

[MrFun]

at least that's consistent, but you were the one who said the comparison with civil rights wasn't valid, when in fact it appears to be a very similar situation: people being refused service on the basis of who they are (although i suppose you could argue that it was the cake which was the problem rather the fact the customers were gay - i don't think it's a very convincing argument though in this case).

they're not being forced to bake the cake, the bakery refused, gave a refund and the customer went to another bakery who were happy to bake it. clearly the issue is about discrimination and rights: do businesses have a right to refuse service based on sexual orientation (or race, gender, age, political views, religion etc.)?

if we want to talk about harm, then i think the greater harm is caused by allowing this kind of discrimination.

[DinoDoc]

Can we just save time and refer to this thread? Everyone is going to repeat the arguments from that thread anyway. MrFun and Elok are off to a running start repeating themselves already anyway.: Arizona's new anti-gay law.

[Ben Kenobi]

Wow, you are stupid aren't you - how do you get by in life?

Seriously, how are gay people a race?

[Ben Kenobi]

Based on his posts here, I would say he doesn't

Ohh. Catty.

Not got your imported caviar today?

[Elok]

at least that's consistent, but you were the one who said the comparison with civil rights wasn't valid, when in fact it appears to be a very similar situation: people being refused service on the basis of who they are (although i suppose you could argue that it was the cake which was the problem rather the fact the customers were gay - i don't think it's a very convincing argument though in this case).

they're not being forced to bake the cake, the bakery refused, gave a refund and the customer went to another bakery who were happy to bake it. clearly the issue is about discrimination and rights: do businesses have a right to refuse service based on sexual orientation (or race, gender, age, political views, religion etc.)?

if we want to talk about harm, then i think the greater harm is caused by allowing this kind of discrimination.

What harm? Their plans were very slightly inconvenienced, and maybe they had their feelings hurt. Legal action made sense in the context of segregation because basically every part of Southern society was engaged in keeping Black people down; the "conspiracy" had to be broken by force. Almost the reverse is true here; our society is sufficiently gay-friendly that Burger King just came out with a Gay Pride Whopper. When a multinational corporation thinks it's safe to hop on the bandwagon, it's pretty clear that the fight is simply over, at least where public opinion is concerned. And we're only going to get more gay-friendly from here on out. People like these bakers (in America, at least) are rare, and getting rarer.

Now is the time, if only people were sensible, to be conciliatory, give these people a means to come to terms with the new order. I understand why it's not going to happen--the fight's been too long, too bitter--but this kind of vindictive behavior is still stupid. The losing side--Fundies, or whatever you want to call them--will (correctly) interpret this sort of thing as a portent that they will not be tolerated in modern society. Ergo, the reasoning continues, they have no stake in society, and nothing to lose. Their reaction to such a new order is hard to predict at this point, but I expect a fair number of them will simply turtle up and settle in for the long haul. They're culturally well suited to that strategy, and the hard times ahead (climate change, if nothing else) will help their numbers. They certainly don't seem likely to politely shrivel up and disappear into the woodwork like the old guard of the Segregationist era.

This. Is. Stupid.

[PLATO]

Christians believe lying is wrong too...does this business refuse service to liars?

Christians believe that adultery is wrong too...do they refuse service to most second marriages?

Seriously...the "Christian" moniker for gay discrimination is nothing short of using religion to promote bigotry.

If this business was truly "Christian" it would promote tolerence ("Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"..."Let you who are without sin cast the first stone").

Jesus sat down with sinners and embraced them. Christians need to remember this fact. In truth, most Christians need to learn what Christianity is all about instead of listening to the money machine that is organized religion.

[Ben Kenobi]

Christians believe lying is wrong too...does this business refuse service to liars?

If someone came up and asked them for a cake that said, "I lie, God does too, get over it", would they make it?

Christians believe that adultery is wrong too...do they refuse service to most second marriages?

How about a cake with "I love adultery, and so should you!"

Seriously...the "Christian" moniker for gay discrimination is nothing short of using religion to promote bigotry.

I'm curious as to your response to either of these requests? Would you consider it bigotry if the Christian business pointed the fellow to another business that will be more than happy to provide these things?

If this business was truly "Christian" it would promote tolerence ("Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"..."Let you who are without sin cast the first stone").

How about Romans 1? Would they be permitted to make a cake with that inscribed on it? Or would you regard that quotation as 'bigotry'?

Jesus sat down with sinners and embraced them.

Jesus told them to leave their lives of sin.

Christians need to remember this fact. In truth, most Christians need to learn what Christianity is all about instead of listening to the money machine that is organized religion.

Million dollar question - do you believe that Christianity teaches that homosexuality is a sin?

[Ben Kenobi]

Now is the time, if only people were sensible, to be conciliatory, give these people a means to come to terms with the new order.

Elok - you've been lied to the whole time. It's not about 'tolerance' it's not about 'acceptance'. It was never about these things. Look at what you see in this thread here.

Sava calling to shut down all those durn Christian businesses, all the 'prejudiced' bigots should get crushed by the power of the state.

I can see it.

Can you?

[MrFun]

Christians believe lying is wrong too...does this business refuse service to liars?

Christians believe that adultery is wrong too...do they refuse service to most second marriages?

Seriously...the "Christian" moniker for gay discrimination is nothing short of using religion to promote bigotry.

If this business was truly "Christian" it would promote tolerence ("Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"..."Let you who are without sin cast the first stone").

Jesus sat down with sinners and embraced them. Christians need to remember this fact. In truth, most Christians need to learn what Christianity is all about instead of listening to the money machine that is organized religion.

QFMT

[MrFun]

People like these bakers (in America, at least) are rare, and getting rarer.

Homophobic bigots in United States are rare?

[Dinner]

Ohh. Catty.

Not got your imported caviar today?

Most of stuff from the former USSR is fake these days so now the best caveat is farm raised in the US or EU. The best caveat I've ever had was from Spain and the second best was from California.

[N35t0r]

One caveat though Oerdin

[Sava]

/facepalm

[MOBIUS]

Seriously, how are gay people a race?

They're not, you moron. **** me you're a total ****ing ******!!!