Israeli Police Beat 15 year old American Citizen

[Al B. Sure!]

Rocks are deadly weapons, but when an American citizen throws a rock at a foreigner, the foreigner is expected to graciously receive the rock, honor it, and cherish it. These Israelis should be put in their place. Frankly I'm disappointed in the Marine Corps for not upholding the glory of the US of A.

Marines

We are not authorized to use force against rock-throwing children. From what I understand, the issue came up almost daily in Iraq (that is, kids throwing rocks), particular with logistical convoys. The kids apparently were not always hostile. They would usually shout for food or candy. Throwing rocks was probably the only way they thought they could get the Marines' attention.

[Aeson]

That's why I'm bringing scissors to Israel.

They'll burn you alive for having implements of the devil ...

[Felch]

We are not authorized to use force against rock-throwing children.

Are you authorized to read carefully and understand what people are saying?

"These Israelis should be put in their place." Were the Israelis throwing rocks?

[Felch]

They'll burn you alive for having implements of the devil ...

I get that a lot.

[Al B. Sure!]

Are you authorized to read carefully and understand what people are saying?

"These Israelis should be put in their place." Were the Israelis throwing rocks?

Over and over, it just amazes me how the Israeli authorities (both IDF and police) operate under completely different rules of engagement and with no concern for appearances before either a domestic or international audience, as if public affairs or winning hearts and minds has no meaning to them. What the E-IDF here (the usual suspects) never even acknowledge is that even if Israel is justified in things they do, it still looks bad. They still fail epically in portraying themselves as a justified force of good. There is a reason why most of the international community is critical of Israel. They're not being anti-Semitic! Israeli authorities look to all the world like bullies!

American servicemembers have done terrible things, from atrocities to comparatively benign acts like urinating on corpses. However, when these incidents occur, the military's response is uniformly swift, harsh, and just. These examples are annually used to reinforce appropriate conduct in required classes.

Furthermore, American rules of engagement have been traditionally extremely strict. Even going back to the Beirut barracks bombing of 1983 in which Marines required command authorization to even insert a magazine in their rifles, and continuing to more recent operations, US servicemembers operate on a very tight leash to minimize collateral damage and excess force.

Finally, the US military emphasizes building positive relations with local nationals. These occur not just in an official capacity but even in an ad hoc manner by things like US servicemembers giving candy to children. Maybe IDF soldiers in the West Bank or South Lebanon pass out candy and soccer balls to Palestinian and Lebanese children, as Americans do, but I've never seen evidence of this. Even if they do so, they don't know how to publicize it so the world knows, which would be yet another failing of the IDF's public affairs department.


However, when it comes to combating insurgency, American methods may be flawed. The Israeli historian Martin van Creveld has argued that the US is almost schizophrenic (not his term but it applies) in its operations, such as in Fallujah, Iraq but dating as far back as Vietnam: warning a population thoroughly and well in advance of military operations, using extreme and devastating force (after normally operating under very strict ROE), then magnanimously offering to rebuild. The historian claims such behavior makes America seem weak-willed, conflicted, and shifty.

[DaShi]

I think reg should be confined to the 'Dead Pool' thread...

Ugh, every time you guys do that I think we have a thread about Deadpool.

[PLATO]

It's the NRA's fault

The National Rock Association should be banned and they should have some strict rock control laws. These unliscensed weapons simply cannot be allowed to get into the hands of children. It is a miracle that he didn't bash his own head in. Rocks should only be in the hands of trained police/military like the ones who used their training to safely subdue this rockman before scores may have been injured.

[Al B. Sure!]

This is not a gun control thread

[regexcellent]

Oh my god nobody cares about the dumb **** you learned at TBS or whatever, it just doesn't apply here. YOU ARE NOT A POLICE OFFICER. The US military's primary job is not stamping out ****ing riots. Military rules of engagement are an entirely different ball of wax from police use of force.

Also, the point of not responding to rocks with shooting is not to protect the lives of the rock-throwers, but because it encourages rock-throwing since the entire point of attacking the cops is to provoke a response that will make international headlines like this one did. That's why turret gunners didn't shoot back at kids who threw rocks at them, because it would make the occupation of Iraq look bad. Not because we gave a **** about the idiots who would attack armed soldiers with sticks and stones.

That is, incidentally, the entire reason that American kid was there: to get the Israeli police to beat him up so it would make headlines. Hence I don't feel very sorry for him.

edit: To add on the rules of engagement point, the Israelis also have strict RoE. There are a couple differences between us and them. First, whenever they **** up, everyone hears about it. Second, there is actually a threat to the existence of their state. There are actual Israeli civilians getting killed and injured by terrorists. They don't have the luxury of shooting pen flares first.

[PLATO]

This is not a gun control thread

I didn't mention guns...you did.

[Aeson]

Also, the point of not responding to rocks with shooting is not to protect the lives of the rock-throwers, but because it encourages rock-throwing since the entire point of attacking the cops is to provoke a response that will make international headlines like this one did.

WTF?

[regexcellent]

Yes, the rioters aren't trying to actually hurt the cops. That won't get them what they want. They are trying to get a response out of the cops that is inappropriate which results in international condemnation. It's a propaganda war.

[Aeson]

I'm going to have to go with "WTF?" again ... this time in regards to why you think that's the part of your statement that drew the WTF ...

[dannubis]

Yes, the rioters aren't trying to actually hurt the cops. That won't get them what they want. They are trying to get a response out of the cops that is inappropriate which results in international condemnation. It's a propaganda war.

Dude, shut up already.

[Bereta_Eder]

When kids throw rocks is because they're pissed.
Could be because their country is in occupation, could be because little suzi didn't kiss them back or it could be because they have home problems.
Whatever the cause,they remain kids throwing rocks at heavily armed riot police.
If you respond with anything other than simply trying to disperse them, using of course not lethal force, or try to arrest them, you will initiate a larger responce that will be 10 times more frightening.

The cause issue is why they throw rocks. And tackle these issues. When they start to throw rocks you have already failed anyway.