http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19372533Deadly shootout near New York's Empire State Building
It is not clear what prompted the morning shootout
A number of people have been wounded near the Empire State Building in New York City, officials have said.
The gunman was killed by police, US media reported, and up to eight others were wounded in the incident, which took place before 09:00 (13:00 GMT).
It is not clear what the casualties' conditions were, or what led to the shooting at 34th Street and Fifth Avenue.
The incident does not appear to be terror-related, police said.
There is currently a heavy police presence around the popular tourist attraction.
Fifth Avenue, a major traffic artery in the city, has been closed from 42nd street, local media said.
One witness, Aliyah Imam, told TV station Fox 5 News that the gunman was "shooting indiscriminately at people".
She said a young woman standing next to her fell to the ground after being shot.
One of New York's most popular tourist attractions, the Empire State Building is a 1,453-ft (442-metre) skyscraper, which attracts nearly four million visitors a year.
This is like those terrorist attacks in Israel/Iraq/Afghanistan. After a while everyone thinks it's normal.
So what are US policy makers going to do about this random violence do you think?
"An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
"Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
There are shootings in the US every day. And when mass shootings occur, there's more press coverage of shootings generally. While shootings aren't good, of course, we should wait to see if this year is actually any worse than the average year.
Allow me to provide a summary of what this thread will turn into:
GunLover: "There aren't enough guns on the street, someone could have shot the gunman and prevented this tragedy!"
Liberal: "There are too many guns on the Street! If No one had guns then there wouldn't be shootings!"
GunLover: "There are already guns out there, you can't get them all back, if you tried only criminals would have guns"
Brit: "It worked in England"
GunLover: "This is the ****ing United States of America! We're better!"
Chris Rock: "We need a tax on bullets, make it too expensive to go shooting up places"
GunLover: "Besides, there aren't that many gun deaths, just look at Fairfax county, Virginia"
Liberal: "What about Washington D.C. though?"
Troll: "And especially Chicago, they kill each other every day there. Where are the Chicago Poly members so I can rub this in their faces?"
"Sissy!"
"Gay!"
"Stupid Canadian!"
"*******!"
"Fag!"
And then we all wait for the next thread.
Asher (August 24, 2012), ColdWizard (August 24, 2012), DaShi (August 24, 2012), Guynemer (August 24, 2012)
Nothing? More folks probably died of a car accident driving into the city this morning.Originally Posted by Traianvs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19372533
This is like those terrorist attacks in Israel/Iraq/Afghanistan. After a while everyone thinks it's normal.
So what are US policy makers going to do about this random violence do you think?
If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
:(){ :|:& };:
Wiglaf (August 28, 2012)
"An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
"Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca
I guess that's it then. Can the mods close this, please? Thanks.
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
Who toasts toast?
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
They shouldn't do anything. We're a big country and there are bound to be more than 100 or so people that will do this kinda **** every year.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19372533
This is like those terrorist attacks in Israel/Iraq/Afghanistan. After a while everyone thinks it's normal.
So what are US policy makers going to do about this random violence do you think?
"I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger
But I thought that New York City had all those sensible gun laws you guys supported. Bloomberg is the most virulent enemy of the 2nd Amendment now in office.
Do not take anything I say seriously. It's just the Internet. It's not real life.
Everyone look at how effective NYC's gun control is
If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
:(){ :|:& };:
Encourage it. It's good for business and voters like it too, so more is better, right?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19372533
So what are US policy makers going to do about this random violence do you think?
Noone even died here, proving once again that guns are safe.
Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"
I just realized how the US can balance its budget and pay off its debts in under 10 years.
Indulge me -
Whereas, Guns don't kill people, people kill people,
Whereas, Missiles, artillery, etc. are just big guns,
Be it resolved that, the US Government immediately stop procuring guns, bullets, missiles, etc.
The US government will save billions per year!
There's nothing wrong with the dream, my friend, the problem lies with the dreamer.
Came here to say this.Everyone look at how effective NYC's gun control is
In the state of New York it takes months and an extensive background check to get a handgun. In NYC this is also true for rifles. High capacity magazines and "assault weapons" are banned statewide. The gun this man used was almost certainly illegal AND THAT DID NOT STOP HIM. Neighboring New Jersey's laws are similarly strict.
I come from the land of the ice and snow
From the rust belt where industry won't go
Any sensible person will realize a single city (or even a single state) cannot effectively enact gun control.
I'm sure you know this, but let's start to be intellectually honest here, okay?
This isn't targeted at you in particular, but at the several posters in this thread who have all made the same patently absurd argument.
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
Even though that people kill peple, they kill them a whole lot easier with guns, so it's the efficiency that matters most. Americans are too efficient to use some other lesser weaponry like swords, crossbows, showels, spears or hammers.
Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"
THE WHOLE GODDAMN STATE has strict gun laws. New York City has a population roughly equal to that of Virginia. The state has 20 million people, larger than most countries and coming on 2/3rds the population of Canada. Gun control is not workable.
I come from the land of the ice and snow
From the rust belt where industry won't go
If you would care to read my post again...I mentioned states cannot even do it.
Unless your state boundaries are equivalent to national boundaries, it just means you go to another state to buy your ****.
As for a reasonable argument...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4496590/
Nine others were hit by gunfire. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said that some of the victims may have been hit by police bullets. The victims are expected to survive.
Can you imagine the chaos if this was in some redneck town like Houston? All of those heroes carrying guns, firing off at "the shooter" and hitting far more innocents than even the trained police officers did here.
That would've been a sight to see.
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
Modern day American gladiators
Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"
There isn't a documented case of a massive melee free for all of gunfighters from concealed carriers. There are loads and loads of documented cases of these things being interrupted by people with firearms. That doesn't get reported because usually only the perp is injured and things are hunky dory, thus it's not really newsworthy.
I come from the land of the ice and snow
From the rust belt where industry won't go
To add: concealed carry permit holders statistically have a dramatically lower frequency of homicide than the general population. That include justifiable homicide i.e. defensive gunfire.
I come from the land of the ice and snow
From the rust belt where industry won't go
That's just because there are too many cowardly democrats not packing heat, and because Republicans only pull guns on people when victory is assured (which extends to US national security policy).
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
Americans are too fat to use weapons other then guns -
Also, Americans can only be brought down by high caliber weapons.
There's nothing wrong with the dream, my friend, the problem lies with the dreamer.
This would indeed shock a simpleton, I'm sure.
Next you'll also tell me that the majority of concealed carry permit holders live in suburbia and are white.
But let's continue attributing the fact that they carry a concealed weapon as the reason they are below the general population rate.
Doesn't it bother you to be so blatantly disingenuous? Or are you just copying and pasting **** from the NRA page?
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
Okay, now you're just spouting troll bullshit rather than contributing anything meaningful.
The simple reality is that New York's border controls with adjacent states for the purposes of individuals and non-drug items is not that much more strict than controls for entering Canada. If I wanted to bring a gun into Canada, I could, and could probably sneak it past customs too, just by crossing the bridge over the Niagara River an hour away from Rochester. One more hour I'm in Hamilton. One more hour after that, I'm in Toronto.
Alternatively, you could get a gun in Michigan, which has reasonably loose gun laws, and smuggle it into Windsor. That would be just as difficult (not at all) and you could easily purchase things like "assault weapons" and concealable handguns.
Canada just doesn't have the same problem with crime that America does all around; it has nothing to do with guns.
I come from the land of the ice and snow
From the rust belt where industry won't go
We knew that already. You give a gun to a Canadian and he puts it on the shelf. Give a gun to an American and he goes out and shoots people. It's all in the culture. Americans are uncivilized barbarians and that is all there is to it.
While we knew that already, it does not hurt to repeat this point, people on this site are forgetful.
Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"
What is the penalty of being caught of bringing a gun into Canada? What is the likelihood of being caught of bringing a gun into Canada?
What is the penalty of being caught bringing a gun into New York? What is the likelihood of being caught of bringing a gun into New York?
Keep telling yourself that. It's patently absurd to think guns don't have any role to play in your absurdly high murder rate.Canada just doesn't have the same problem with crime that America does all around; it has nothing to do with guns.
You also do have many cultural problems, but many of those are the fault of the same kind of people who are pro-guns-for-everyone.
"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
"If they'd rather die then perhaps they had better do so and decrease the surplus population."
------------------------------------------------
"A world without guns is not a more peaceful world, but a more savage one, where brute strength allows bullies to exploit people incapable of fighting back."
Sam Harris
Most Americans live in suburbia and are white. My recollection is that only about 25% of Americans live in city centers. Incidentally, that's were almost all crime occurs. Meaning that for the vast majority of Americans, the effective crime rate that they experience is very low.
I come from the land of the ice and snow
From the rust belt where industry won't go
I don't know the Canadian penalties, but sneaking a banned gun in New York is generally a felony with a mandatory prison sentence. I believe that sentence is two years.
I come from the land of the ice and snow
From the rust belt where industry won't go
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