Reply With QuoteWhat about the folks who go to the make-me-straight programs and summer camps? A lot of people would find themselves much happier about their lives if they were straight, and they know it, and those are proof.
A major element of this discussion has been whether or not people would choose to be gay.Originally Posted by Elok
I'm sure homosexuals, despite the stigma, would never want to turn hetero by flipping a switch.
"The boastful seeks the company of parasites." (Spinoza)
What about the folks who go to the make-me-straight programs and summer camps? A lot of people would find themselves much happier about their lives if they were straight, and they know it, and those are proof.
I come from the land of the ice and snow
From the rust belt where industry won't go
a) It's not proof they will be happier.
b) It is incompatible with the hypothetical since those aren't genetic switches.
c) If you go that route, then every gay person who doesn't go to the "make-me-straight" programs (the majority) are "proof" of the opposite conclusion. (Again, it's not proof.)
"tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"
Actually, that raises a disturbing thought: assuming there is a way to flip the LIKES switch to "vagina," won't you have these guys going around with clear memories of sexual acts (and accompanying emotions) which no longer appeal to them at all? That sounds like it'd mess a fellow up pretty quickly too...
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I wish there was a pill to make me gay.
Instead, all I can do is put on the costume.
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"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
They're just making themselves even less happy.
"The boastful seeks the company of parasites." (Spinoza)
There is and it's called coming out of the closet.
Yes, because the cure-the-gay camps don't actually work and actively promote the idea that being gay is unacceptable.
I come from the land of the ice and snow
From the rust belt where industry won't go
You're here now aren't you? Just when you thought you were out, it sucked you back in.
"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!
Gay costume? Who would wear a gay costume?I wish there was a pill to make me gay.
Instead, all I can do is put on the costume.
We must be concerned not merely about who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced these murderers. - Martin Luther King Jr. Eulogy for the Martyred Children (1963)
It's fun to stay at the YMCA!
I come from the land of the ice and snow
From the rust belt where industry won't go
It's not the costumes that are gay, it's the mustaches....well, except for the policeman. Ascots are pretty gay.
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I remember when the US Navy seriously considered using this as a recruiting video.It's fun to stay at the YMCA!
There's nothing wrong with the dream, my friend, the problem lies with the dreamer.
So none of them are actually gay? They are all just wearing costumes?It's fun to stay at the YMCA!
We must be concerned not merely about who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced these murderers. - Martin Luther King Jr. Eulogy for the Martyred Children (1963)
One was. I don't remember which. They were entertainers - they didn't have to believe in anything. Just like today's evangelicals.
There's nothing wrong with the dream, my friend, the problem lies with the dreamer.
None of them are construction workers or bikers or cops either...go figure...
If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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Exactly. If there was a pill that could change my sexual orientation to be straight, I would not want to take the pill.
This is where an awesome Mark Twain quote would be, but Apolyton says it would be too many lines. :(
What would your opinion be if hetero parents could use a pill to ensure their offspring were heterosexual?
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I'm not sure yet. Right now, I just think it doesn't make any sense, since sexual orientation does not determine how healthy an individual will be, nor does it determine how well the individual will function in society.
This is where an awesome Mark Twain quote would be, but Apolyton says it would be too many lines. :(
I am not certain thats entirely true. With the widespread bigotry still out there, a think it is factual to believe a gay person will likely face more challenges. Whether those challenges will strengthen them as a person or hurt them . .. well thats a good question.
If we lived in a world where it would not matter maybe as a parent I could be ambivalent. BUt currently I do harbour a mild hopê that both my children turn out to be straight. Selfishly I just know that would be easier for them and me. But that said I could not see having them take a pill to change them . ( unless they were completely miserable perhaps,.... )
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
The homophobia and heterosexism in society are the sources of the stress and challenges.
This is where an awesome Mark Twain quote would be, but Apolyton says it would be too many lines. :(
So??
I know that.. but I bring my children into THIS world. WE cannot eliminate challneges and stresses but most parents hope they are minimized.
If my son or daughter are gay, I will deal with that with all the love and support I can give. But there will be more stresses and challenges. Parents worry about their children anyway even if they happen to be in every advantaged grouping possible as well as being fit attractive and healthy. I won't apologize for hoping for situations that most protect my children.
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
In some parts of the world, it's changing for the better, with greater acceptance of gays and lesbians.
This is where an awesome Mark Twain quote would be, but Apolyton says it would be too many lines. :(
Yes
gay marriage is here in Canada and is now pretty much a non-issue outside the far right. MY gay uncle and his long time partner are welcome guests in any of the homes of eithers family. THings have changed and I expect that change will continue but it will probably be a couple of generations before homophobia becomes fringe enough to almost be a non-factor
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
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