Now that the game is out (in the US)

[Nikolai]

For our American friends: What do you think of the XP after a day of playing? I see the response it quite positive over at CFC.

[Nikolai]

WPC's got a review out btw: http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/show...p-Kings-review

[Guynemer]

I wasn't prepared for the changes made to Great People; only Artists can trigger a GA now, and GS add a certain amount of science, no longer an extra free tech.

[OzzyKP]

Yikes, I haven't come across that yet. That blows. In my first game I only got Great Prophets, and I was thinking "Damn, after a point, great prophets blow, they can't trigger golden ages" But they nerfed all great people? Ugh. Nerfing things is the last thing they should be doing in this game. Great people were already under whelming...

[OzzyKP]

Apparently Great Artists can't culture bomb anymore either. But Great Generals can...

[MxM]

Yikes, I haven't come across that yet. That blows. In my first game I only got Great Prophets, and I was thinking "Damn, after a point, great prophets blow, they can't trigger golden ages" But they nerfed all great people? Ugh. Nerfing things is the last thing they should be doing in this game. Great people were already under whelming...

They made them more different and more interesting to play. Most of my great people would go for golden ages, with exception of free technology later in the game.
Overall, my impressions are very, very positive, but I have limited amount of play.

[gdijedi7]

I like it.

Things do seem to take more turns to do, but they don't seem to take more years. They balanced that out well.

Religion is fun. I seriously ticked off the Celts by spreading Christianity into Hindu Dublin.

Spies are disapointing. They aren't units, and you can't build them. As far as I know, they just sort of randomly show up every once in a while once you reach the middle ages, and you're better off keeping them in your own country to try and kill enemy spies. Or friendly spies. Your friends have no reason to not spy on you, though if you kill their spies and forgive them for spying, they'll like you better.

The Steampunk scenario is cool, but is not a scenario so much as it is a mod. You start off with three settlers (After the lore says things have been going on for a while...go figure.) There are not many techs, and settlers take a long time to build.

All in all, I like Gods and Kings. I don't seem to get many great people, though.

[Guynemer]

Yikes, I haven't come across that yet. That blows. In my first game I only got Great Prophets, and I was thinking "Damn, after a point, great prophets blow, they can't trigger golden ages" But they nerfed all great people? Ugh. Nerfing things is the last thing they should be doing in this game. Great people were already under whelming...

Their great improvement (Holy Site, I think?) is pretty badass, especially if one completes the Piety tree. (I think, I'm going off of memory, just wrapping up at the office right now.) Put them wherever you'd normally put a trade post, and you make **** tons of cash, culture, and piety, which can be put towards more GPs (or other great people once you open up the lower tier of the social policies).


I don't quite understand the change to Great Scientists, though. Engineers and Merchants seem relatively unchanged (other than the GA thing); as any of the developers said anything regarding the Great Scientists?

[OzzyKP]

The folks at CFC were praising the move on great scientists, saying that bulbing tech was overpowered before. *shrug*

[gdijedi7]

I never used the bulbs, on the theory that you got more out of the improvement in the long term, so I wouldn't know.

[Ming]

For those that have it, here is a chance for you to have gotten the game for free....

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/1...n-V-Gods-Kings!

Just write a review and post it... you can be a winner

[mkorin]

After two games, I like it a lot. I like the Spy and can't figure out what good the religion is, but the gameplay is 1000 X better.

Mike

[Guynemer]

See, to me it is the opposite; the espionage is decidedly meh, but religion is enjoyable. There are plenty of bonuses to choose from, so you'll inevitably find something to suit your style and circumstance.

They could have done more with it, to be sure, but I quite like it. The decision to cap available religions to half the number civs is an interesting choice; I see how it helps to spice up the early game, but given that the religion powers are first come, first serve, and there are more choices than can be used in any given game, it seems possibly too punitive to those civs that fail to establish a religion.

[Wyrda Edocsil]

Religion is very well implemented - better than IV, IMO - but spies aren't nearly as fun as they were in IV. They just can't do very much. I think it would be great if they added some more options for actions in other civs' cities, like poisoning water and sabotaging production, or other things that were present in IV. The greatest improvement that I've seen so far is the rearranging of the tech tree. It feels a lot less linear and condensed than it used to, more like IV's. Some rebalancing and improvement to the AI is still necessary, and a bit more available information (in diplomacy and demographics, primarily) would be much appreciated, but overall, I think that, after the expansion, this game is better than Civ IV+warlords, though not quite as good as Civ IV+BTS, which was as near a perfect game as I've ever played.

[Proteus_MST]

I have to agree with Wyrda with regards to religion.
Developing your religion from the ground on with choosing a faith that bestsuits your situation is definitely something that could have been a great addition in Civ IV.

Well, as for other additions ... I am just at turn 70 in a marathon game on a huge map, so it will be a lot of turns till I discover most new additions, but I already like, that there are so many new resources. Already found Salt, crabs and truffles on my continent.

It also seems like the AI players are rather fast religion founders. I went straight to Pottery and to build a shrine, in order to gain faith and found my own religion. Well, thanks to a new type of Ruins that contained something that gave me 140 faith, I was able to found it already before my shrine was complete, around turn 50.
But Alas, I wasn´t the first one. When I founded my religion, there were already 5 AI players who had founded their religion before me (I can only assume that they stumbled upon the same type of ruins as myself, considcering how long it takes in marathon to accomplish anything meaningful)

[Ijuin]

I never used the bulbs, on the theory that you got more out of the improvement in the long term, so I wouldn't know.

If you are early enough in the game, you will get more from building the improvement, but when you get to the Modern Age, there isn't enough time left to get more science points from the improvement than from just cashing him in.

[Guynemer]

I have to agree with Wyrda with regards to religion.
Developing your religion from the ground on with choosing a faith that bestsuits your situation is definitely something that could have been a great addition in Civ IV.

Well, as for other additions ... I am just at turn 70 in a marathon game on a huge map, so it will be a lot of turns till I discover most new additions, but I already like, that there are so many new resources. Already found Salt, crabs and truffles on my continent.

It also seems like the AI players are rather fast religion founders. I went straight to Pottery and to build a shrine, in order to gain faith and found my own religion. Well, thanks to a new type of Ruins that contained something that gave me 140 faith, I was able to found it already before my shrine was complete, around turn 50.
But Alas, I wasn´t the first one. When I founded my religion, there were already 5 AI players who had founded their religion before me (I can only assume that they stumbled upon the same type of ruins as myself, considcering how long it takes in marathon to accomplish anything meaningful)

Maybe one of them was the Celts, since they generate faith from forested tiles. (I think?)

I don't remember if there are other civs that generate faith in different ways... is there one that generates faith when killing units? Barb farming could be quite lucrative...

[Dr Strangelove]

Does anyone know who sings the intro?

[Dr Strangelove]

Their great improvement (Holy Site, I think?) is pretty badass, especially if one completes the Piety tree. (I think, I'm going off of memory, just wrapping up at the office right now.) Put them wherever you'd normally put a trade post, and you make **** tons of cash, culture, and piety, which can be put towards more GPs (or other great people once you open up the lower tier of the social policies).


I don't quite understand the change to Great Scientists, though. Engineers and Merchants seem relatively unchanged (other than the GA thing); as any of the developers said anything regarding the Great Scientists?

Wasn't there always a set amount of science you could get from using a great scientist? IIRC later in the game, when research items became very "expensive" using a great scientist to research a particular item didn't always give you the item in one turn.

[Guynemer]

No, they were previously always a free tech, it would turn the action button gold and say "FREE TECHNOLOGY" or something

[dannubis]

For the first time in years I don't feel like this games is a only race against the AI. I am having fun with it...

[OzzyKP]

No, they were previously always a free tech, it would turn the action button gold and say "FREE TECHNOLOGY" or something

Then again I used one yesterday and I bulbed a modern era tech outright.

[OzzyKP]

Wasn't there always a set amount of science you could get from using a great scientist? IIRC later in the game, when research items became very "expensive" using a great scientist to research a particular item didn't always give you the item in one turn.

It works like that in Civ4.

[Proteus_MST]

For the first time in years I don't feel like this games is a only race against the AI. I am having fun with it...

I have to agree with it. The AI seems to act more rational. I have rather peaceful relationships with my neighbors ... they don´t complain too often that I expand too near to their borders (well, Cathy of Russia did for a short while ... she doesn´t do it anymore
and the only person who repeatedly tries to wage war with me is Dschingis Khan of Mongolia ... something which definitely fits to his personality (and also fits the fact that his military is the only one which is numerical slightly superior to mine ) .

At the same time I have long time good relationships with Sweden, Siam and Egypt and enjoy (between the times that I am at war with mongolia + allies) long times of peace and prosperity.

So it seems like the AI definitely has improved from its former state.

[Dr Strangelove]

It works like that in Civ4.

OK, I may have been thinking about Civ 4.

[Dr Strangelove]

Pikemen upgrade to Lancers?

[Proteus_MST]

In a way this is understandable... both were used for the same role during their time periods...
Pikemen were Anti-Cavalry infantry as well as Lancers were Anti-Cavalry Cavalry.
(that is, from the 18/19th century onward, when the use of a lance against infantry units was in decline and other types of cavalry would get used for anti infantry tactics)

[Dr Strangelove]

In a way this is understandable... both were used for the same role during their time periods...
Pikemen were Anti-Cavalry infantry as well as Lancers were Anti-Cavalry Cavalry.
(that is, from the 18/19th century onward, when the use of a lance against infantry units was in decline and other types of cavalry would get used for anti infantry tactics)

No it's not understandable. Lancers are just knights with less armor. The earliest cavalry deployed by the Greeks and Romans were essentially lancers. Lancers were used in places in medieval europe before the art of armoring was developed. The lancers in Civ 5 are probably patterned after the famous "Winged Hussars" fielded by Poland in the 15th to 17th centuries. The Winged Hussars were essentially knights with only a cuirass and a helmet for armor and no armor for their horses. They were lighter than knights and hence faster. By this time the armored knoght was essentially obsolete, I don't know of any conflict between armored knoghts and Winged Hussars. Their main use was in eastern Europe against opponents who weren't armored and they were definitely used against both infantry and cavalry. By the 19th century the Poles were the last nation still deploying lance weilding cavalry. Napoleon used them against infantry squares since the lance was longer than a musket with bayonet, lancers could inflict casualties against infantry squares when ordinary cavalry could not. The problem was that there weren't very many of them, and as they slowed to thrust their lance they often got shot.

[Lambiorix_be]

I wasn't prepared for the changes made to Great People; only Artists can trigger a GA now, and GS add a certain amount of science, no longer an extra free tech.

True

I was surprised too. I had already put my GA next to the border of another civ to get a resource via the culture bomb...and then noticed the button was gone

No big deal however...maybe it was too easy in the past.

[Dr Strangelove]

I'm serious about anting to know who sings the intro.