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Republicans really do hate gay people

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  • Originally posted by gribbler View Post
    There is no rational reason to think that removing the societal convention that gives homosexuals unequal status will have a significant effect on fertility. It would only increase the number of couples that are eligible to adopt children if the need arises.
    Has an effect on society. Sorry, every state and the Supreme Court disagrees with you.

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    • Originally posted by MrFun View Post
      No, gay people are not free to marry to marry one another.
      Yes they are. A gay man can marry a gay woman just fine.

      Under the hypothetical, a gay man marrying another gay man is not prohibited by the state, it is physically impossible unless one of them gets a sex change.

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      • Originally posted by MrFun View Post
        I understand what he is saying, HC. That's why I argued that it does not make sense, in my reply to him above. Take two gay men who are attracted to one another, and are in love with one another, so they want to marry one another. But they are denied the right to marry, because they cannot marry one another.

        Kuci's so-called "reasoning" denies gay people the right to marry one another, because in the Western world, people tend to marry one another out of mutual romantic love. Saying that a gay man is free to marry a woman denies the gay man the freedom to marry the gay man he is in love with.
        You are begging the question.

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        • Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
          My god. I want to know if you're being deliberately obtuse or you simply aren't smart enough to understand what Kuci is saying.

          In the hypothetical Kuci is postulating, gay people marrying each other is as sensible as male pregnancy. It doesn't even exist. So gay people are as free to marry (i.e. MARRY WOMEN) as everyone else.
          This is exactly why you and Kuci miss the ball so often in debates, you base your positions on these hypotheticals that are meaningless in terms of real life. Do you think it matters in the slightest to a gay man that theoretically he could marry a woman despite not feeling the slightest iota of attraction? If the law was that only gay people could get married, would it comfort you to know that you were free to marry another man if you chose?

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          • Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
            MrFun, I think you may just not be intellectually equipped for this discussion.
            It turns out I was right. MrFun, you are a nice guy but I'm just not talking with you about this anymore because it is fruitless.

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            • Originally posted by kentonio View Post
              This is exactly why you and Kuci miss the ball so often in debates, you base your positions on these hypotheticals that are meaningless in terms of real life.
              No, they aren't. A huge proportion of the population believes the hypothetical is true. If you are unable to put yourself in your opponents' shoes and reason from their own premises, you are intellectually stunted and should have little faith in your own beliefs.

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              • Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                No, they aren't. A huge proportion of the population believes the hypothetical is true. If you are unable to put yourself in your opponents' shoes and reason from their own premises, you are intellectually stunted and should have little faith in your own beliefs.
                A huge proportion? Funny last I checked the number of people in the US supporting gay marriage was above 50%.

                Then again it doesn't really matter what proportion are for or against, just like it didn't matter that a huge proportion of Americans didn't believe blacks and whites should intermarry. You are talking intellectual exercises while millions of people are being discriminated against.

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                • Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                  No it wouldn't. It is entirely consistent with the notion that there is an easy metaphor in the use of the word marriage to describe same-sex unions.
                  That's speculation on your part. The people performing the weddings between two men could have easily intended it as a literal marriage. That's the explanation that makes the most sense. If someone holds a funeral, I would think it was for an actual death and not something that died in a metaphorical sense.

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                  • A huge proportion? Funny last I checked the number of people in the US supporting gay marriage was above 50%.


                    Which leaves something like 45%+ on the other side. I'm not going to argue with you over the definition of "huge".

                    Then again it doesn't really matter what proportion are for or against, just like it didn't matter that a huge proportion of Americans didn't believe blacks and whites should intermarry.


                    It absolutely did matter because in a democracy even constitutional rights have only limited power to override the will of the people.

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                    • Originally posted by gribbler View Post
                      That's speculation on your part. The people performing the weddings between two men could have easily intended it as a literal marriage. That's the explanation that makes the most sense. If someone holds a funeral, I would think it was for an actual death and not something that died in a metaphorical sense.
                      If someone held a funeral for something that was never alive (let's say for an idea) then you damn well would consider it a metaphor.

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                      • Originally posted by Wiglaf View Post
                        Has an effect on society. Sorry, every state and the Supreme Court disagrees with you.
                        Sure it does, more orphans might get adopted. When has the Supreme Court ever said anything on whether same-sex marriage has an effect on society.

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                        • Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                          If someone held a funeral for something that was never alive (let's say for an idea) then you damn well would consider it a metaphor.
                          Yes, since an idea can't actually die. But people can actually marry, and you're only assuming people in ancient Rome who performed same-sex weddings thought men marrying men was physically impossible and it was all a metaphor. A same-sex wedding is far more likely to occur in a society where people don't think same-sex marriage is an absurd impossibility and is clear evidence marriage has not always, everywhere been conceived as strictly between people of the opposite sex.

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                          • Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                            Yes they are. A gay man can marry a gay woman just fine.
                            Why the fvck would I want to marry a woman?
                            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                            • You wouldn't, but the point is that you can. You have the right to marry a woman; it's your choice to exercise it.

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                              • Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                                It absolutely did matter because in a democracy even constitutional rights have only limited power to override the will of the people.
                                20% approval a year after Loving vs. Virginia. There wasn't a majority approval until nearly 25 years later. Should blacks and whites have been prevented from marrying until that majority opinion came along on its own?

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