Civ5:G&K changes the combat system and adds 27 new units

[Martin Gühmann]

Apolyton has started to build up its Civilization 5: Gods and Kings section. Here is the first article about the changed combat system and the 27 new units.

Please post anything we might add or change on this article.

[Guynemer]

Linky no worky.

[Martin Gühmann]

Link fixed.

[Martin Gühmann]

Added more units to the changed units list, filled in some missing values. The strengths for Great Prophets and Missionaries. Both are meassured in Faith, so I assume the strength of the Inquisitor is measured in faith, too. I also added the movement for the Great Prophet from the available screens and videos, it is 2 movement.

Additionally, I got crazies with Apolyton's column width. All the stuff never fit into it, so we now have 100 pixels more.

-Martin

[Dinner]

One of the Youtube videos posted by the development team has hinted that there will be some changes to the 1UPT tile rule. Has there been any hints on exactly what those changes might be? Honestly, 1UPT has really cheesed me off with Civ5.

[Dinner]

Damn, that's a lot of new units.

[Martin Gühmann]

One of the Youtube videos posted by the development team has hinted that there will be some changes to the 1UPT tile rule. Has there been any hints on exactly what those changes might be? Honestly, 1UPT has really cheesed me off with Civ5.

Can you link to the youtube video in question so that I can look more closely on that one? However so far I haven't seen any definite bits of information about this. I would have expected to find anything about this with the units and the combat system.

-Martin

[Dinner]

I'm having trouble finding the video but it was of one of the development team members at one of the recent conventions. I did find some media reports about what he said though"

There's also more flexibility in stacking units, though don't expect the classic "stack of doom" to return.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/08/ci...ty-driven-cha/

Embarked land units can now have something called "Defensive Embarkation", and can stack with a naval unit for protection. There is also a new "Great Admiral" unit that can heal nearby friendly naval units.

http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_expansion.html

If they're not going to change the stacking rules beyond allowing naval units to stack then can we at least group units in formations so it doesn't take 10 minutes for everyone in an MP game to complete one turn? Honestly, the "carpet of doom" is a million times worse than the old "stack of doom" and it makes MP unplayable. Worse the AI can't handle it and endlessly shuffles units around with no noticable plan or effect nor does the AI really take maximum advantage of its ranged units so adding in more units the AI doesn't effectively use half the time probably won't improve the game.

[Martin Gühmann]

I'm having trouble finding the video but it was of one of the development team members at one of the recent conventions. I did find some media reports about what he said though"

There's also more flexibility in stacking units, though don't expect the classic "stack of doom" to return.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/08/ci...ty-driven-cha/

That could mean anything, from just modifying 1up or to have stacks of 9 or 12 units, as we have it in CTP1 and CTP2, respectively. I can't believe it that Firaxis still hasn't got this.

Embarked land units can now have something called "Defensive Embarkation", and can stack with a naval unit for protection. There is also a new "Great Admiral" unit that can heal nearby friendly naval units.

http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_expansion.html

I have that in our Civ5:G&K Units and Combat article, too. I also have the source of Defense Embarkation. If you look there it rather seems to be related to stacking embarked units with naval units.

If they're not going to change the stacking rules beyond allowing naval units to stack then can we at least group units in formations so it doesn't take 10 minutes for everyone in an MP game to complete one turn? Honestly, the "carpet of doom" is a million times worse than the old "stack of doom" and it makes MP unplayable. Worse the AI can't handle it and endlessly shuffles units around with no noticable plan or effect nor does the AI really take maximum advantage of its ranged units so adding in more units the AI doesn't effectively use half the time probably won't improve the game.

I felt, that the designers of CTP1 wanted to get rid of this micromanagement we had in Civ2. However even, if you introduce a stack limit of 12, you still have to teach the AI how to deal with. You can't move 7 units over a tile with 6 units. You have to group you attack stacks. SO all units have first to go to a rally point then you have also to make sure that the assignment of units stay constant. Better targets may become available, and shouldn't be based too much on how close you are the target. Also how well you can reach it.

-Martin

[Martin Gühmann]

One of the achievements says:

Lion of the North: As Sweden, Start a turn with your great general stacked with a Hakkapelitta.

So there seems to be some sort of stacking, whether it is something of stacked combat is still not clear.

-Martin

[Martin Gühmann]

I updated the unit stats, expanded the list of changed units, and added a list of new promotions that are known so far.

-Martin

[Ijuin]

Units with zero attack (Settler, Worker, Great People, Great General) have always been able to stack with a friendly combat unit. Any land hex can contain one non-combat unit and one combat unit of the same nationality. The new expansion is extending this to allow one embarked land unit to stack with one naval combat unit on any water hex.

[Beatie]

Units with zero attack (Settler, Worker, Great People, Great General) have always been able to stack with a friendly combat unit. Any land hex can contain one non-combat unit and one combat unit of the same nationality. The new expansion is extending this to allow one embarked land unit to stack with one naval combat unit on any water hex.

Ohh yeah.. that is very important to me (not)... than I still have to manual all the embarked units across the map for my oversea war (wich I love so mutch). Why not create a transport ship instead to deal with this problem??? Transport ship where part of the fun with oversea wars. Ohhh wait.. there still in civ4... back to civ4 I guess. I only buy G&K perhaps if there on sale for cheap, or if the whole world is saying that is the best game ever.. I don't think so...

[Adagio]

Transport ship where part of the fun with oversea wars.

I can't agree on this, I'm so happy that the transport ship is gone. I like the way oversea wars are done now

[Jon Miller]

I am actually looking forward to it...

I have ben playing a lot of civ5, just went back to civ4 and civ5 is enjoyable.

JM

[Dinner]

That could mean anything, from just modifying 1up or to have stacks of 9 or 12 units, as we have it in CTP1 and CTP2, respectively. I can't believe it that Firaxis still hasn't got this.



I have that in our Civ5:G&K Units and Combat article, too. I also have the source of Defense Embarkation. If you look there it rather seems to be related to stacking embarked units with naval units.




I felt, that the designers of CTP1 wanted to get rid of this micromanagement we had in Civ2. However even, if you introduce a stack limit of 12, you still have to teach the AI how to deal with. You can't move 7 units over a tile with 6 units. You have to group you attack stacks. SO all units have first to go to a rally point then you have also to make sure that the assignment of units stay constant. Better targets may become available, and shouldn't be based too much on how close you are the target. Also how well you can reach it.

-Martin

I am a huge fan of CTP1 & 2 and was a big contributor to the CTP2 forums here back in the day. They really did do a good job of eliminating micromanagement and making the game more interesting for multiplayer (things like combined arms); yeah, the AI sucked ass but as long as you played MP without any AI then the game was amazingly good. Or at least it was until someone discovered the infinite builds bug.

[Crustacian]

I appreciated the positive effect CTP gave to you for loosing as few as possible units.

One unit per hex means needing less of them but more elite units to deal with things. But if it goes back to more in a stack, simply make more units.