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Thread: Voter fraud: a rarity only in the fantasies of the far left

  1. #61
    kentonio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevico View Post
    You're right. You know, murder's pretty rare, robbery's rare, all these crimes are rare. So there's no point in enforcing the law, right? Because it's broken so rarely? We all know it's just a waste of money, because nothing will happen if the law isn't enforced. Like Tammany Hall, which never happened. Or Jim Crow, which never happened.
    Let's imagine a little town in Iowa called Bumfck, population 400. In Bumfcks long and glorious history it has never experienced a murder, a rape, a robbery or a violent crime of any description. One day the mayor of Bumfck announces that despite the town already being in financial peril, they have decided to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on an assault vehicle, body armour and machine guns for ol' Sheriff Buttkiss because there's always a chance that in the future the town could be invaded by Mexican drug cartels.

    Does that seem like a sensible use of taxpayer money to you?

  2. #62
    Ogie Oglethorpe
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentonio View Post
    So we can assume that theres no fraud, no voter suppression, no lowering of turnout and in fact no effects full stop? So the GOP want to spend millions of dollars of taxpayer money to achieve... nothing?
    Au Contraire, the effects were not nothing... to the contrary voter turnout and in particular for minorities was in fact higher than previous elections pre voter registration verification. Thus the action had a positive effect on the democratic process both from a reliability and representational perspective.

    As for this issue being a GOP issue not really. The issue is a matter of states having the ability to police their own elections as is duly authorized them.
    Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe; July 25, 2012 at 10:57.
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    Ogie Oglethorpe
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentonio View Post
    Let's imagine a little town in Iowa called Bumfck, population 400. In Bumfcks long and glorious history it has never experienced a murder, a rape, a robbery or a violent crime of any description. One day the duly elected reresentatives of Bumfck announces that despite the towns long standing history of being capable of making financial decisions with respect to the towns safety (not to mention loegal authority to do so), a federal governmental body decided to intrude into the towns most recent decision to purchase assault vehicles machine guns etc. by stating that many people would be offended and feel threatened by the presence of an assualt vehicle and thus their ability to freely associate would be infringed. The federal government continued making these claims despite the fact that all pilot programs showed that all objective means of showing freedom of association were increased after similar pilot programs at other small towns.


    The town proceeded to go with their legally approved actions only to find that tourism trade jumped substantially as more people flocked to the area. Rather than being frightened away, it created a windfall of revenue for the citizenry.
    I love these little exercises.
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    The Mad Monk
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    Romney camp asks Va. to probe voter forms



    Mitt Romney's campaign is asking Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli to investigate mailings from the Voter Participation Center.

    By: Wesley P. Hester | Richmond Times-Dispatch
    Published: July 25, 2012 Updated: July 25, 2012 - 12:00 AM


    Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney's campaign is asking Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli to launch an investigation into voter-registration forms that are being sent to Virginia residents and addressed to deceased relatives, children, family pets and others ineligible to vote.

    The errant mailings from the Washington-based nonprofit group Voter Participation Center have befuddled many Virginia residents, leading to hundreds of complaints.

    The organization has been mass-mailing the forms — pre-populated with key information such as names and addresses — to primarily Democratic-leaning voting blocs such as young adults, unmarried women, African-Americans and Latinos.

    In a letter to Cuccinelli's office and the State Board of Elections, Kathryn Bieber, an attorney for the Romney campaign, calls for an investigation into the matter by law-enforcement officials, claiming that the mailings appear to violate "at least one and maybe several Virginia laws aimed at ensuring a fair election."

    Bieber refers to the mailings as "tactics that amount to, or at the very least induce, voter registration fraud," and says the issue "presents a very significant risk to the proper administration of the upcoming general election."

    Citing a Sunday Richmond Times-Dispatch story that brought the mailings to light, the letter also asks the State Board of Elections to require registrars to reject all pre-populated voter registration applications from the group and review the eligibility of all Virginians who have registered in the past two months.

    "This is the only way for voters and other interested parties to regain confidence in the voter registration and electoral process that has been abused by the Voter Participation Center," the letter says.

    Page Gardner, president and CEO of the Voter Participation Center, said the organization mailed nearly 200,000 third-party registration forms to Virginia addresses in June, which resulted in 15,026 new voters being registered as of July 18.

    On Monday, the Voter Participation Center responded to the Sunday Times-Dispatch story, stating in a letter on its website that "imperfections in the VPC vendors' lists — while regrettable and unfortunate — should not be the reason or the excuse to call an entire process that is working into question."

    Justin Riemer, the State Board of Elections' deputy secretary, said forms have been sent by the group to deceased infants, out-of-state family members, and non-U.S. citizens, among others.

    In a letter this month, the State Board of Elections asked the group to cease pre-populating their forms and raised questions about how the group was obtaining lists of registered voters, citing the errant forms.

    Riemer noted that pre-populating the forms violates rules set forth in the state code and the Virginia Constitution requiring that voters fill out their own forms.

    The State Board of Elections had not received the letter from the Romney campaign Tuesday afternoon and declined to comment on the specifics.

    No comment was immediately available from Cuccinelli's office.

    Asked for comment on the Romney campaign's letter, the Voter Participation Center issued a statement noting that their forms are official applications, not registration cards.

    "Furthermore, they were approved before we sent them out by the State Board of Elections and are the same applications that anyone can access at a local government office or on the internet," the statement read. "Our process is legal and working."
    http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/v...ms-ar-2081517/
    Last edited by The Mad Monk; July 25, 2012 at 10:53.
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  5. #65
    kentonio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogie Oglethorpe View Post
    Au Contraire, the effects were not nothing... to the contrary voter turnout and in particular for minorities was in fact higher than previous elections pre voter registration verification. Thus the action had a positive effect on the democratic process both from a reliability and representational perspective.
    So you're saying that the GOP is deeply invested in trying to raise the number of blacks and latinos who vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogie Oglethorpe View Post
    As for this issue being a GOP issue not really. The issue is a matter of states having the ability to police their own elections as is duly authorized them.
    ..and completely coincidentally the states who wish to do this all happen to be under GOP control?

  6. #66
    Ogie Oglethorpe
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentonio View Post
    So you're saying that the GOP is deeply invested in trying to raise the number of blacks and latinos who vote?
    NO an ancillary benfit to be sure.


    ..and completely coincidentally the states who wish to do this all happen to be under GOP control?
    No completly conincidental with the elected representatives platforms and campaigns. Why do you wish to defeat the will of the people via the voice of their elected representatives, particularly when this is not a tyranny of the majority issue considering the minority are benefitting?
    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

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    DinoDoc
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentonio View Post
    ..and completely coincidentally the states who wish to do this all happen to be under GOP control?
    Rhode Island must cause consternation among people suffering under this delusion.

    Incidentally, here's another example to go along with the Georgia one Ogie provided.
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    MrFun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
    Oh my god we covered this but the liberals closed their eyes, put their fingers in their ears, and said LALALALALA!

    Voter fraud? Philadelphia. Nuff said.
    I hope you get your right to vote taken away so that you will wake up and realize all this voter ID bullshit is not really about fighting voter fraud. It's about taking away the rights of those who are legal voters.

    Critical thinking skills - get some.
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    Ogie Oglethorpe
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    Its Philly he has a better chance of being beaten down at the polling place then being disenfranchised.
    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

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    kentonio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogie Oglethorpe View Post
    No completly conincidental with the elected representatives platforms and campaigns. Why do you wish to defeat the will of the people via the voice of their elected representatives, particularly when this is not a tyranny of the majority issue considering the minority are benefitting?
    So your honestly held belief is that the Democrats are so strongly against this because they hate your freedom?

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    Ogie Oglethorpe
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    Are you a Democrat? I was addressing you, not Democrats.
    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

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  12. #72
    kentonio
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    So the fact that the Democrats oppose this tooth and nail pretty much across the entire party is something we should just ignore, because obviously the party in power don't represent any proportion of the will of the American people?

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    Ogie Oglethorpe
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    I routinely ignore Democrats. Why on the other hand do you hate the democratic process?
    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

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    Al B. Sure!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFun View Post
    I hope you get your right to vote taken away so that you will wake up and realize all this voter ID bullshit is not really about fighting voter fraud. It's about taking away the rights of those who are legal voters.

    Critical thinking skills - get some.
    I have a photo ID. If mine expired or I didn't have one, I'd get a new one. It's free so that won't be a problem, plus it's useful for a boatload of stuff unrelated to voting.

    Not seeing how my rights would be abridged ever.
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    Al B. Sure!
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    Now, on the other hand, having rampant voting fraud (which happens in Philly; that's a FACT), does abridge my rights by limiting the power of my vote. Though to be honest, my vote doesn't carry any weight anyway on local, house of representatives, and presidential elections. I think only on gubernatorial and senate elections does it count, right?
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    Rampant voter fraud in a city that would vote for Democrats anyway? Really? Why do something illegal for no benefit?
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    Al B. Sure!
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribbler View Post
    Rampant voter fraud in a city that would vote for Democrats anyway? Really? Why do something illegal for no benefit?
    I ALREADY TOLD YOU ABOUT INCIDENTS IN PHILADELPHIA ELECTION HISTORY WHERE THERE WAS CONFIRMED FRAUD!!!!

    Holy ****.

    And it doesn't just come into play with Democrat vs. Republican. It comes into play within the Democratic party with non-establishment Democrats not having a chance because of fraud.

    Use your brain, *******.
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    Ogie Oglethorpe
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribbler View Post
    Rampant voter fraud in a city that would vote for Democrats anyway? Really? Why do something illegal for no benefit?
    Rural voting locales typically don't have the population mass to credibly claim a massive turnout. IF fraud is to occurr it would finds itself most easily presented in urban locales. Since the vote usually hingers on a rural vs. urban turnout model...
    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

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    Quote Originally Posted by gribbler View Post
    Rampant voter fraud in a city that would vote for Democrats anyway? Really? Why do something illegal for no benefit?
    I dunno. Why don't we ask the Daley machine in Chicago.
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    Al B. Sure!
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    He thinks he's so clever but he's a retard
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
    I ALREADY TOLD YOU ABOUT INCIDENTS IN PHILADELPHIA ELECTION HISTORY WHERE THERE WAS CONFIRMED FRAUD!!!!

    Holy ****.

    And it doesn't just come into play with Democrat vs. Republican. It comes into play within the Democratic party with non-establishment Democrats not having a chance because of fraud.

    Use your brain, *******.
    How does citing an incident that occurred two decades ago demonstrate that voter fraud is "rampant" in Philadelphia? You're just mad because you're a Republican in a city run by Democrats so you accuse them of fraud.
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    rah
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    The Daley machine is no where near what it used to be.
    The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
    Baron O RIP.

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    Well duh. There's no Daley to run it now.
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    rah
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    Funny. No, even just recently before the son left office, the machine had considerably less power than when his father ran things with an iron fist.
    Most of the difference was all the reform that considerably reduced the patronage army. A lot of positions went from politically appointed to merit hire.
    And the number of city workers changed. Fewer garbage men to a truck. etc. The number of people that owed their job to the mayor was the power behind the machine.
    The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
    Baron O RIP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kentonio View Post
    So the fact that the Democrats oppose this tooth and nail pretty much across the entire party ...
    Rhode Island Government:

    Governor Lincoln Chafee (I) (Not a Democrat I'll grant you but still a liberal)
    Lieutenant Governor Elizabeth H. Roberts (D)
    Rhode Island Senate: Controlled by Democrats
    Rhode Island House of Representatives: Oh look! Also controled by Democrats.

    Look what they passed last year!
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

  26. #86
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    Plenty of vote fraud in Kentucky according to Kerry B. Harvey, U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Kentucky, and the convictions he has obtained, but his cases would not be much affected by voter ID. They are mostly for vote buying.

    "Prosecutors say more than $400,000, part of it drug proceeds ... spent to buy the votes of more than 8,000 voters, usually at $50 apiece.
    One voter was even able to bid up the cost of his vote to $800.
    In the Eastern District of Kentucky alone, more than 20 public elected officials and others have either been convicted or plead guilty in various vote-buying cases just in the last two years."


    vote buying

    We have catch a few aliens and illegal aliens trying in San Antonio many elections, but they are almost never prosecuted, just turned away from the polls and told they can not do that. No idea how many slip through. A Bit further south of San Antonio soome counties are famous for dead and aphabetized voters.
    Last edited by Lefty Scaevola; July 25, 2012 at 17:21.
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    So there's no evidence that Voter ID laws significantly prevent voter fraud and there is evidence that Voter ID laws do significantly disenfranchise minorities and those who are against Voter ID laws are called undemocratic?

    Why do you guys even listen to these hacks?
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    Al B. Sure!
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    What evidence is there that minorities are disenfranchised?

    This is my problem. By what mechanism are minorities specifically adversely affected by this law? Are minorities being turned away from DMV's when they ask for the free ID's? What is stopping minorities from having ID's like the rest of the population?

    The Democratic position feels like racist babying, some new white man's burden.
    "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
    "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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    But how are minorities specifically affected more than white people?

    This is important to know since the legal argument against the voter ID law is predicated on the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
    "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
    "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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