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  • #31
    Originally posted by Lorizael View Post
    Manufacturing?
    Yeah, it's sort of process of elimination. I want an actual career (ie, not to be an expendable drone bouncing from job to job with no prospects). But most actual careers require eduction, and I simply can't afford to take years getting another degree. That leaves skills that can be learned on the job. Manufacturing is a big one--a lot of machinists, for example, still get their skills via something like an apprenticeship. It also helps that they actually make stuff; that appeals to me a lot. I hate it when I can't see that all the work I do accomplishes anything measurable, and machining in particular sounds interesting. Finally, the field's due for a revolution with new technologies in the pipeline, and China's wages are rising. Sounds good to me. Now if only I can get a toe in...

    It's better than the tech writing in that it involves little to no stress, worse in that it's mind-numbingly boring.
    Yeah, sounds like it. Astronomy does sound more interesting, so good luck with that.
    1011 1100
    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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    • #32
      Then there's the "Obama's killing the family farm" crowd.
      No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Elok View Post
        Yeah, it's sort of process of elimination. I want an actual career (ie, not to be an expendable drone bouncing from job to job with no prospects).
        Hey!

        But most actual careers require eduction, and I simply can't afford to take years getting another degree. That leaves skills that can be learned on the job. Manufacturing is a big one--a lot of machinists, for example, still get their skills via something like an apprenticeship. It also helps that they actually make stuff; that appeals to me a lot. I hate it when I can't see that all the work I do accomplishes anything measurable, and machining in particular sounds interesting. Finally, the field's due for a revolution with new technologies in the pipeline, and China's wages are rising. Sounds good to me. Now if only I can get a toe in...
        Good luck to you as well. Are you still writing?

        Yeah, sounds like it. Astronomy does sound more interesting, so good luck with that.
        Well, I managed to successfully re-teach myself Calculus I and high school Chemistry (enabling me to place out of those respective courses at ye olde local community college), but I've got a long road ahead of me.
        Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
        "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Elok View Post
          Back in the U.S. looking for work. Ideally I'd like to break into manufacturing and acquire some of the legendary "job skills" my English degree didn't give me. Did an interview with a local company Monday, waiting to hear back. Is your current job better or worse than doing tech writer work for that grim lady who interviewed me lo those many years ago?
          I've spent my life in manufacturing. If I had it to do again, I wouldn't do it again.
          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Lorizael View Post
            Hey!
            I'm not even on your cloud, Mick.

            Good luck to you as well. Are you still writing?
            Sort of. It's impossible to have a steady routine of anything with a baby around; I have dubbed him "the meat-based productivity inhibitor," and the wife doesn't disagree. I should probably be writing now, but it's hard to get back into the swing in stolen moments. Okay, just this post and then it's back to my cyberpunk-dystopia-in-progress. I'm thinking maybe I can self-publish to eBooks on the cheap. I'll never make any money, but maybe somebody somewhere will read it.

            Well, I managed to successfully re-teach myself Calculus I and high school Chemistry (enabling me to place out of those respective courses at ye olde local community college), but I've got a long road ahead of me.
            I can imagine. I was never any good at Calculus, though that might be because I had a bad teacher or something; I did great in math up through pre-calc, then hit a brick wall of solid D's in Calc. Also sucked at Chemistry, though I did fine in Biology and aced Physics. So that's a pretty fine accomplishment as far as I'm concerned.
            1011 1100
            Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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            • #36
              Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
              I've spent my life in manufacturing. If I had it to do again, I wouldn't do it again.
              Well, we're very different people, but what do you do and what don't you like about it?
              1011 1100
              Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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              • #37
                Originally posted by gribbler View Post
                Hillary Clinton supported cap and trade and the rednecks in West Virginia loved her. Hillary was just a white female version of Obama with the same policy positions you moron.
                What a fasetius argument and you know it. SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT: WEST VIRGINIA IS THE ONLY RACIST STATE IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY? THAT MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE YOU ******* ********ER ****HEAD . ALL THE OTHER STATES ARE NOT RACIST EXCEPT WEST VIRGINIA. I am curious how you would explain this. Do you think racists all got together and decided to move to West Virginia? Where was this meeting because I missed it.

                OH BUT HERE COMES THE KILL SHOT: HILLARY CLINTON ACTUALLY CAMPAIGNED IN THE STATE. OBAMA DID NOT. AND I QUOTE,

                "In the Democratic race, Obama has effectively ceded West Virginia. He told a crowd Monday in Charleston – in his only visit to the state – that he expected Clinton to draw “many more” votes than he would get. "

                CEDED, AS IN HE GAVE IT THE **** UP. BECAUSE HILLARY WAS NOT FOR CRIPPLING THE ****ING ENERGY INDUSTRY b:

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                • #38
                  I plan production. That would be fine, if I was in China or Mexico. I continue to do it because it's what I know and I'm good at it. I should have learned a trade.
                  Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                  "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                  He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
                    I plan production. That would be fine, if I was in China or Mexico. I continue to do it because it's what I know and I'm good at it. I should have learned a trade.
                    You mean a trade outside of manufacturing (ie, not a machine operator or anything like that)? A trade within manufacturing might be even worse, then you couldn't even plan production for Mexican subsidiaries or anything like that. But I've noticed there's some pretty constant demand for machinists in MD and the DC area--that might have something to do with the years of training required, though.
                    1011 1100
                    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Machinists are a dying breed.
                      No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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                      • #41
                        Do you mean that the trade itself is dying, or that there's demand but nobody's going into it anymore? I know there are big changes ahead due to 3-D printing/additive manufacturing/whatever you want to call it, but I think even then CAD/CAM and general industry experience would be useful for a transition. But then, I don't know much about the subject beyond a cursory overview.
                        1011 1100
                        Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Both, actually.

                          Industry moves continually toward standardized parts, leaving less of a market for machinists skills, and fewer opportunities for machinists. Machinists require a big training investment in time and material, but with the future less secure, fewer people are willing to take that on.

                          However, when you need a machinist, nothing else will do. The demand still exists especially in older industrial areas with less-than-current machinery.
                          No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I remember when this came out. I still have the issue somewhere...

                            CALLING ALL MACHINISTS
                            BY JAY LENO, Photos By John Lamm


                            Leno's cars, like his '32 Packard, don't just look good.
                            They run right and that means he needs skilled
                            machinists to make parts.


                            Nowadays, if I meet younger people who run machine shops, they're working there because it
                            was their father's machine shop. You don't see a lot of young guys starting machine shops.
                            But it's a respectable trade and there's still a lot of money to be made. Take the guy who used
                            to be in the building next to mine. He made airplane parts and his business got so big he outgrew
                            the space. This was a guy with a little machine shop with a bunch of machinists. He made $14
                            million the year he left. I'll tell you how he did it. There are tons of phony airplane parts
                            coming from Asia and other sources that are stamped "Approved." Trouble is, they're not approved
                            by anyone that matters. So the big airlines would come there and say, "We need 600 titanium bolts."
                            Then they would have to have somebody stand there while the guy made the bolts out of titanium.
                            So the work never got out of the airlines' hands. When the bolts were done, they were stamped,
                            graded and delivered. You have to understand that some critical aircraft bolts are 4 grand apiece,
                            because the only way you can ensure that the bolts are being made right-there's such a black
                            market for counterfeiting aircraft parts-is to pay a trustworthy man to watch each and every
                            part being machined. That's why they're so expensive. So bolt by bolt, this guy's a millionaire.
                            What a difference from years past. In the old days technology was expensive and labor was cheap.
                            Look at my 8.0-liter Bentley. You've got about 75 acorn nuts holding the water jacket on. When
                            this car was built you could pay a guy 10 cents an hour to sit there all day and tighten acorn nuts.
                            Now it's just the opposite: Labor's expensive and technology is incredibly cheap. It's odd, but
                            I'm not simply talking about physical labor today. I'm talking about people with real skills.
                            I watched "Dateline NBC" a while back and they had some guy on who was a math genius. You could
                            throw him a column of figures and he could add them up quicker than you could on a computer. There
                            are guys like that with machinery, guys who can just look at an engine and know all there is to
                            know about it. Take the late Harry Miller, a real American genius-aesthetically and mechanically.
                            Here was a man who made racing parts and engines in the 1920s and 1930s that looked like beautiful
                            sculpture, but they actually worked. I don't believe Miller was a trained engineer-he was just an
                            intuitive engineer. I don't think he went to MIT or anything like that. But he had the vision. So
                            did Ettore Bugatti. And they had shops full of guys who had the skills to machine and make anything
                            they needed. How many guys are there like that today? I don't know. But a lot of them just get
                            passed by because it doesn't seem as though preserving and encouraging these skills is worthwhile.
                            By establishing college scholarships, I'm just trying to open up another area for kids-an area that
                            they may not know is available. When you're a kid, you always think you're the only one who thinks
                            about anything. It's like sex. You think, "My parents don't know anything about this." It's the same
                            type of reasoning.

                            I like the idea of making the job of a mechanic a respectable position. In my mind, I rank a
                            machinist higher than a computer operator. But I think in America's mind, a machinist is like a
                            Jiffy Lube guy-nothing against Jiffy Lube, but these are guys who have only the most basic automotive
                            skills. The machinist's craft just isn't acknowledged, probably because it's hard, meticulous,
                            often dirty work. People don't understand it.




                            When Leno needs parts for his cars, he can't usually
                            find what he needs on the shelves at your basic discount store.


                            Here's an example we should never forget. Somebody literally made all the airplanes-the fighters,
                            bombers and transports-we used in World War II. We didn't win the war just because we were great
                            fighters-not to demean anybody who fought-but we also won because we had the ability to overwhelm
                            the enemy in terms of skilled production and technology. Think about Henry Ford and his chief engineer,
                            Charlie Sorensen, figuring out how to build four-engined B-24 Liberator bombers on a mile-long
                            assembly line in an enormous building at Willow Run, Mich. In California, before these East Coast
                            guys got into the picture, they built aircraft painstakingly one at a time outside in the sun.
                            But under the pressure of a world conflict, a couple of mechanical geniuses figured out a better way.
                            Back then, we had plenty of people with the necessary skills: Kids learned machining and welding
                            in high school, then they worked as apprentices until they mastered these trades. We built things
                            that were very well done. And we did it all in America. Take my '32 Packard V12. It was built in
                            Detroit, but some of the parts came from as far away as South Bend, Ind. The whole thing was made
                            here, most of it under one roof. That doesn't happen anymore and it worries me. You think about
                            another world war and you say to yourself, "Uh oh."

                            I needed high-speed gears made for one of my Duesenbergs. They're hypoid and helical. I found people
                            who could make one or the other, but not both. I couldn't find anyone to make them. There wasn't one
                            company in this entire country. Every gear cutter I tried told me that all the machines had been sold.
                            Some went to Korea, some to China. But I called a company in India and they could make the gears. And
                            I guess that would be okay. But finally, through an older man in Chicago, someone 10 years past
                            retirement, I was able to get them made. And all it took was 18 months. But a few years ago, this job
                            could be done within a few miles of Burbank Airport, right near my garage. I don't know if that means
                            anything to a lot of people but it's important to me. All these venture capitalists today don't make
                            anything. When they're dead, there's nothing left. Years ago, people made things that lasted. There
                            was a finished product. I have a garage full of 'em. If you want to preserve old cars, you need people
                            with the skills to do it. We're growing a generation of kids who won't know how to work on old cars.
                            That's why I support the Fred Duesenberg Scholarship and POPULAR MECHANICS sponsors the
                            Jay Leno/POPULAR MECHANICS Scholarship at McPherson College. It's too bad, but I see a lot of
                            essential skills going to Mexico or Japan. You can still wander off on a side street in those
                            countries and see some guy making something work because he's literally whittling a piece of metal*
                            to fit. True machinists don't think of metal* as something hard and unchangeable. They can make
                            anything they want, or replace nearly any part that's ever been made. I have a lot of respect for
                            those guys. I always will.

                            No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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                            • #44
                              Do you work in manufacturing, TMM? If so, what's a good avenue to pursue in manufacturing?
                              1011 1100
                              Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                              • #45
                                I run a chemical plant. Not a bad way to go, especially if it's specialty chemicals. However, it's capital intensive and labor light compared with most other forms of manufacturing, so the crews are small and just about everybody "knows somebody". I haven't had to hire or fire anyone for over a year now, and while we're operating at maximum capacity, hiring more won't do me any good unless somebody gives me the $4 million and approvals I would need to install a bigger process.
                                No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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