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Thread: A possible positive development in the Republican Party.

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    A possible positive development in the Republican Party.

    For the last 30 years the Republican Party has moved ever further and further to the right and has become obsessed with forcing out anyone who does not pass the religious right's "ideological purity test". You have to sign on to every extreme bit of the party's rhetoric or risk getting driven out of the party. This has caused the GOP to go from being a "big tent party" with progressive, moderate, and conservative wings to a strictly right wing party. In private some Republican strategists have lemented this as it has meant the GOP just isn't competitive in some areas but very few were ever willing to say so in public for fear of the ideologues coming after them. Finally someone in the GOP is publicly saying the party should stop being a small tent party and go back to being a large tent party so it will be interesting to see what, if any, impact this has.

    Schwarzenegger: GOP, take down that small tent
    California's Republican Party used to work toward solutions. Now it's an exclusive club where members' ideological cards must be checked at the door.


    By Arnold Schwarzenegger

    May 6, 2012
    It was Richard Nixon who brought me into the Republican fold.

    He was running for president, and I had recently arrived in California from Austria, which I'd left because the European socialist mentality wasn't big enough for my dreams. Growing up, I was surrounded by kids whose greatest ambition was to one day collect a pension. I didn't intend to spend my whole life dreaming about floating on a government safety net.

    One day, when Nixon was talking on the television, my liberal friend Artie translated bits of what he was saying. As I recall, he spoke about free enterprise, about less government and taxation, about the need for a strong military.

    I asked what party Nixon was from. Artie said he was an imbecile Republican. "Then I will be an imbecile Republican," I said.

    I've been writing my memoirs recently, and looking back at how I came to my political identity has reminded me that this election cycle marks my 44th year as a Republican. I can't imagine being anything else.

    That's why I am so bothered by the party's recent loss of two up-and-coming Republicans: San Diego mayoral candidate Nathan Fletcher, currently a state assemblyman, and former assemblyman and current Congressional candidate Anthony Adams, both of whom left the party to become independents. On the one hand, I respect their standing up for principle. On the other, I hate to see them go.

    I'm sure they would have preferred to remain Republicans, but in the current climate, the extreme right wing of the party is targeting anyone who doesn't meet its strict criteria. Its new and narrow litmus test for party membership doesn't allow compromise.

    I bumped up against that rigidity many times as governor. Not surprisingly, the party wasn't always too happy with me. But I had taken an oath to serve the people, not my party. Some advisors whose opinions I respect urged me to consider leaving the party and instead identify myself as a "decline to state" voter. But I'm too stubborn to leave a party I believe in.

    It's time for the Republicans who are so bent on enforcing conformity to ask themselves a question: What would Ronald Reagan have done? He worked hard to maintain a welcoming, open and diverse Republican Party. He would have been appalled to see Republicans like Fletcher and Adams conclude that they had no other option than to leave the party.

    We need to remind the Republicans who want to enforce ideological purity that if they succeed, they will undo Reagan's work to create an inclusive party that could fit many different views.

    An inclusive party would welcome the party's most conservative activists right alongside its most liberal activists. There is room for those whose views, I think, make them sound like cavemen. And there is also room for us in the center, with views the traditionalists probably think make us sound like progressive softies. What's important is our shared belief in the broad Republican principles of free enterprise and small government. If we continue to fight one another without being willing to compromise, we will keep losing to big-government advocates.

    We need to welcome young leaders into the party and invite them to participate in a robust debate. Republicans love the free market, so it should seem like a no-brainer that the more views we have at the table, the better our final product will be.

    To succeed, Republicans need to embrace true Reaganism, and that means embracing the true Reagan, a brave and independent leader who believed in solutions and compromise.

    As governor, Reagan was never afraid to buck his party. He raised taxes when he saw no other way to get California out of the red, and he created the California Environmental Protection Agency because, as strongly as he believed in eliminating unnecessary government regulation, he also saw wisdom in protecting our natural resources.

    As president, Reagan worked very well with Democrats to do big things. It is true that he worked to reduce the size of government and cut federal taxes and he eliminated many regulations, but he also raised taxes when necessary. In 1983, he doubled the gas tax to pay for highway infrastructure improvements.

    Today, that would be enough for some of the ideological enforcers to start looking for a "real" conservative to challenge him in a primary.


    Now, Arnold is no longer running for any elected office so it's easy for him to say that but the truth is the California GOP is looking like it's going to get some very big loses in the state legislature. The state recently changed it's primary system; instead of every party having its own primary at state government's expense there will now be just one big open primary with only the top two vote getters going on to the Nov general election. This means to even get on the ballot you have to appeal to a large block of people. This is going to mean that the era of a small minority having lots of influence over who can actually run in the general is going to end as candidates are going to have to be more centrist just to get on the ballot.

    The good news is that in most districts the rigid party ideologues are going to be a thing of the past and the ability of pressure groups to force candidates to move to either extreme during the primaries will be hugely diminished. Arnold has figured this out and want the GOP to go more mainstream instead of being so extremist. Let's see if the raving loons in charge of that party listen or if they just shout RINO as they go off the cliff.
    "Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
    "A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself."
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  2. #2
    Jon Miller
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    I agree that Republicans have been very small tent recently.

    But there is one area that democrats have been very small tent in, and that is abortion. Despite the fact that I bet a greater percent of democrats are pro-life than republicans are pro-chioce.

    JM
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    gribbler
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    It can't be as "small tent" on abortion as the Republican party.
    "South Africa is a shithole. It used to be a decent place." -Ben Kenobi, sharing his wisdom on world history

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    At this point, the only true positive development would be the spontaneous decapitation of every member of the GOP.

    This also applies to the Democrats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Miller View Post
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    Despite the fact that I bet a greater percent of democrats are pro-life than republicans are pro-chioce.
    JM
    PAY UP

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/147734/am...ife-lines.aspx

    GALLOP -

    PRO CHOICE
    REP - 28%
    DEM - 68%
    IND - 51%

    PRO LIFE
    REP - 67%
    DEM - 27%
    IND - - 41%

    MAY - 2011
    "If black people robbed you, I'd not consider it prejudice for you to be angry at black people in general" - Ben Kenobi
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    Keep on Civin'
    RIP Baron O

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    Lorizael
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guynemer View Post
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    At this point, the only true positive development would be the spontaneous decapitation of every member of the GOP.

    This also applies to the Democrats.
    Is that something you see a lot in the medical literature?
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    Jon Miller
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    Oh, I was wrong, they are about the same.

    Which way do independents normally fall again?

    JM
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    Jon Miller
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribbler View Post
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    It can't be as "small tent" on abortion as the Republican party.
    Until the last ~10 years, a lot of Republicans in power were pro-choice. This wasn't the case with the Democrats.

    In my memory.

    JM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Miller View Post
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    Oh, I was wrong, they are about the same.
    Technically, that's not proven here; you made a claim about the size of the abortion camps within the parties, while Ming provided data on the breakdown of the abortion camps by party. Depending on the size of the parties and the popularity of each opinion, that could dramatically skew the results. Don't get me wrong, I imagine the two are about equal--I'm just making a statistical quibble here. Because I can, I guess.

    Also, I'm very glad to have a geriatric action-hero's views on our politics.

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    To be fair, the geriatric action-hero was also elected governor of the largest state twice.

    However, I think the fact that he was able to keep his lovechild secret from the press is a feat more impressive than being governor of California and all his action movies combined.
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    Jon Miller
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    I included in my response that there are more Democrats than Republicans...

    JM
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    You have to sign on to every extreme bit of the party's rhetoric or risk getting driven out of the party. This has caused the GOP to go from being a "big tent party" with progressive, moderate, and conservative wings to a strictly right wing party.
    Out of curiosity, how are blue/yellow dog democrats doing these days?
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    Guynemer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorizael View Post
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    Is that something you see a lot in the medical literature?

    Sadly, no.
    "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinoDoc View Post
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    Out of curiosity, how are blue/yellow dog democrats doing these days?
    Yellow dogs have been extinct since the 1960's or 70's (though some people have no changed the definition so they can pretend some still exist) but blue dogs are alive and well. Two blue dogs did just get primaried though those are exceptions rather than the rule while in the Republican Party anyone deemed not extremist enough gets primaried as a rule.
    Last edited by Dinner; May 7, 2012 at 17:06.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnie
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    Republicans love the free market, so it should seem like a no-brainer that the more views we have at the table, the better our final product will be.
    Nice point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    blue dogs are alive and while.
    Wrong again?
    Two blue dogs did just get primaried though those are exceptions rather than the rule while in the Republican Party anyone deemed not extremist enough gets primaried as a rule.
    Blanche Lincoln and Joe Lieberman say high.
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    Al B. Sure!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming View Post
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    PAY UP

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/147734/am...ife-lines.aspx

    GALLOP -

    PRO CHOICE
    REP - 28%
    DEM - 68%
    IND - 51%

    PRO LIFE
    REP - 67%
    DEM - 27%
    IND - - 41%

    MAY - 2011
    That doesn't actually counter Jon Miller. He said a greater percentage of Democrats are pro-life than Republicans are pro-choice... you showed that the percentage of pro-choice people who are Republicans is slightly more than the percentage of pro-life people who are Democrats. But that's not the same thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
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    That doesn't actually counter Jon Miller. He said a greater percentage of Democrats are pro-life than Republicans are pro-choice... you showed that the percentage of pro-choice people who are Republicans is slightly more than the percentage of pro-life people who are Democrats. But that's not the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elok View Post
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    Technically, that's not proven here; you made a claim about the size of the abortion camps within the parties, while Ming provided data on the breakdown of the abortion camps by party. Depending on the size of the parties and the popularity of each opinion, that could dramatically skew the results. Don't get me wrong, I imagine the two are about equal--I'm just making a statistical quibble here. Because I can, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DinoDoc View Post
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    Wrong again? Blanche Lincoln and Joe Lieberman say high.
    Jesus, you are a **** aren't you. I said it sometimes happens but there are still many blue dogs out there so how does your garbage link prove that wrong? It doesn't and you know it. They're not going extinct no matter what a right wing media outlet like Politico claims. Compare that to how EVERY liberal Republican is gone and almost all moderate Republicans are gone. The Dems simply have a much larger party tent than the Republicans.

    Besides your own link attributed the decline to redistricting in red states and voters in red states going Republican instead of the Dems pushing them out of the party. Talk about confusing cause and effect. Hell, you're far more consistently wrong in your posts than I will ever be. Read your own source.
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  20. #20
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    The blue dogs are a dying breed, and you don't even agree with them anyway.

  21. #21
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    There numbers went down by 26 from 2008 to 2010 but that is, as DD's source even said, because Republicans redistricted a lot of their districts so that Republicans could take them. His claim was that, like Republicans, Dems were forcing out members which is completely false as even his own source agrees.

    The problem the blue dogs had in 2010 is that red states went way redder so as blues in red states they took the brunt of the loses. It has nothing to do with Dems forcing out blue dogs (2 lost primaries this year but last cycle 26 lost to Republicans) so, no, DD is completely wrong to claim Dems are forcing out ideological minorities the way the Republicans force out anyone not an extreme rightist.
    "Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
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    That doesn't actually counter Jon Miller. He said a greater percentage of Democrats are pro-life than Republicans are pro-choice... you showed that the percentage of pro-choice people who are Republicans is slightly more than the percentage of pro-life people who are Democrats. But that's not the same thing.
    You and Elok are apparently illiterate.

    The meaning is pretty obvious. Unless you think 147% of pro-lifers are either Republican, Democrat or Independent.
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    Ming
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    Yep... I thought the poll I provided a link to, and then summarized was exactly addressing the point JM made.
    I was actually surprised to see how close it was, because I assumed like JM that his guess was on target.
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    Al B. Sure!
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    doh!
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    I'm not illiterate, TYVM. Just lazy and hasty.

  26. #26
    Elok
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    Nonetheless, I'd like Al to acknowledge that I misread Ming's post FIRST.

  27. #27
    gribbler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elok View Post
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    I'm not illiterate, TYVM. Just lazy and hasty.
    I believe you because you don't have a record. Sorry to lump you in with Al.
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  28. #28
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    I really wasn't going to say anything about elok's and Alby's posts until you (gribbler) did. I really didn't care that they couldn't read the data correctly. The post had been addressed to JM, and he got the point. And as I said, I was surprised when I went looking for the stats to see just how close it was.

    But thanks for defending my honor
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    Keep on Civin'
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