Apolyton Assemble!! Multi-Site Demo Game 3 is forming! Join Team Apolyton!

[DNK]

Double move mod:
No

Always war
No

Nukes
No

ESP
Yes, without those two missions

Huts/events
hell no

Corps
yes

Need to vote
no

[jobe]

Double move mod
What is that?

Always war
Yes

Nukes
abstention
Don´t care really. Anything special about them in such big and long games?

ESP
No
if Yes, at least without civic switch and tech steal

Huts/events
No
What about Barbs? I hate their randomness...

Corps
No
(imo they are just the most unbalanced thing in the game - not necessarily the most important or strongest - but most unbalanced in longer games, especially with lots of factions and a big map)

[mrboo123]

Too late to join? I was a big part of the civ2 demo games back in the day (as 123john321) and I got time this summer for something like this. Sign up me!

Oh and:
1. Spanish Double Move Mod?

no clue what it is

2. Always War?

No

3. Nukes?

yes

4. Espionage?

Yes but I worry about water posioning being overly used

5. Huts/Events?

Yes! History always had some randomness to it and makes the games for interseting

6. Corporations?

Yes

[OzzyKP]

Its never too late to join!!

Ok, sorry for not explaining things better about the options, there has been discussion over at CFC about the Spanish double move mod, check it out here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...=436398&page=8

Basically the Spanish have figured out a way to stop players at war from double moving on each other in Pitboss games. Typically in pitboss games we have to enforce a no double move rule ourselves, which involves a lot of arguing, reloading, pausing, and other drama. Many games seem to fall apart due to some double move controversy. But it looks like Apolyton's Spanish group has figured out how to control this automatically with a mod. More details at the link. Some people have brought up some minor complaints, but they all seem to be lame ass whining (which RB folks seem to be good at) or things that can be addressed with some tweaks to the mod. Considering how difficult it is to enforce the double move rule in most games I think this mod is fantastic and strongly urge people to vote for it. Let's give this thing a shot! The Spanish community has used it successfully for years.

Also, I'm surprised to see so many people vote against having nukes in the game. It seems like an important aspect of the game we would be cutting out. Are they very powerful? Of course they are! They are nukes! That's the point. I don't think it is unfair or breaks the game. There are defenses that can be built, and obviously if you don't want someone to have nukes and they are headed that way there are ways to stop them. That's the whole point of civ, there are different strategies, different paths to take, and it is these choices that make the game interesting. What I hate, and what the Realms Beyond folks like, is a game with no variables. Where it is just a simple matter of who can generate the most raw beakers & hammers. Booring. Let's throw some spice into the game! I think nukes presents a great wild card that make the super boring end game a bit more interesting. Plus, I think these games generally don't last that long anyhow, so why not? Please reconsider the anti-nuke vote everyone!



Team Apolyton:

1. DNK
2. OzzyKP
3. Dick76
4. mzprox
5. LzPrst
6. Hercules
7. Robert Plomp
8. Toni
9. Calanthian
10. Jobe
11. Ben Kenobi
12. Dinner/Oerdin?
13. mrboo123

Settings Vote:

1. Spanish Double Move Mod?

Yes - 3.5
Ozzy
Hercules (maybe)
mrboo123
jobe

No - 5
Calanthian
mxprox
Robert Plomp
Dick76
DNK

2. Always War?

Yes - 2
Hercules
jobe

No - 6
Ozzy
Calanthian
mxprox
Dick76
DNK
mrboo123

3. Nukes?

Yes - 3
Ozzy
Calanthian
mrboo123

No - 5
Robert Plomp
mzprox
Hercules
Dick76
DNK

4. Espionage?

Yes - 6
Ozzy
Calanthian
mzprox
Dick76
DNK (without civic switch mission)
jobe (without civic switch and tech steal)
mrboo123 (ideally without water poisoning)

No - 2
Robert Plomp
Hercules

5. Huts/Events?

Yes - 2
Ozzy
mrboo123

No - 7
Calanthian
Robert Plomp
mzprox
Hercules
Dick76
DNK
jobe - no barbs also

6. Corporations?

Yes - 6
Ozzy
Calanthian
Robert Plomp
Dick76
DNK
mrboo123

No - 1
jobe

Still Need to Vote:

LzPrst
Toni
Ben Kenobi
Dinner/Oerdin?

[mrboo123]

alright put me down for the double move mod.

also, reading some more, it will be civic switch mission that might be the problem (I just remeber the AI using water poisoning all the time, I doubt this will happen here)

[Magno]

Its never too late to join!!

Ok, sorry for not explaining things better about the options, there has been discussion over at CFC about the Spanish double move mod, check it out here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...=436398&page=8

Basically the Spanish have figured out a way to stop players at war from double moving on each other in Pitboss games. Typically in pitboss games we have to enforce a no double move rule ourselves, which involves a lot of arguing, reloading, pausing, and other drama. Many games seem to fall apart due to some double move controversy. But it looks like Apolyton's Spanish group has figured out how to control this automatically with a mod. More details at the link. Some people have brought up some minor complaints, but they all seem to be lame ass whining (which RB folks seem to be good at) or things that can be addressed with some tweaks to the mod. Considering how difficult it is to enforce the double move rule in most games I think this mod is fantastic and strongly urge people to vote for it. Let's give this thing a shot! The Spanish community has used it successfully for years.

Thanks Ozzy for your support. And sorry for spamming your thread

Our mod has two main objectives, one is the double turn control and the second is the aptmod.com webpage thats a civstats upgraded....

We really think that the double turn control is excelent, but looks like at CFC are not very open to change their way of playing. In worst case, we can take off this control to leave only the new portal only.

[jobe]

+1 for mod

[OzzyKP]

Thanks Ozzy for your support. And sorry for spamming your thread

Our mod has two main objectives, one is the double turn control and the second is the aptmod.com webpage thats a civstats upgraded....

We really think that the double turn control is excelent, but looks like at CFC are not very open to change their way of playing. In worst case, we can take off this control to leave only the new portal only.

I'm sure people will have questions about the mod. It sounds like a cool idea to me, but I've never used it, so it'd be good to have someone in here talking about it who has used it under different circumstances. So by all means, spam the thread.

[Magno]

I'm sure people will have questions about the mod. It sounds like a cool idea to me, but I've never used it, so it'd be good to have someone in here talking about it who has used it under different circumstances. So by all means, spam the thread.

we had been taking about in the spanish reduct, and we think a fast show game could help to take a look to the mod. So, we are opening soon an advance pitboss game with our mod to help evangelization of it. We think on inviting one or two player of each community so they can tell theirs parners his impressions on the mod.

Manolo will host the game.

[Sommerswerd]

Thanks Ozzy for your support. And sorry for spamming your thread

Our mod has two main objectives, one is the double turn control and the second is the aptmod.com webpage thats a civstats upgraded....

We really think that the double turn control is excelent, but looks like at CFC are not very open to change their way of playing.

Just to clarify. I am in favor of the BUG (Spanish) Mod and I am trying to bargain to get it included. I want nukes too Ozzy, but RB is not going to agree to all the things we want, because as you point out, they like their Civ to be a Chess-style MP-fest. In the end we are going to have to nerf Espionage, or Nukes or Corps or give up the Spanish Mod. So I would like to prioritize the Spanish Mod and Espionage.

[OzzyKP]

Just to clarify. I am in favor of the BUG (Spanish) Mod and I am trying to bargain to get it included. I want nukes too Ozzy, but RB is not going to agree to all the things we want, because as you point out, they like their Civ to be a Chess-style MP-fest. In the end we are going to have to nerf Espionage, or Nukes or Corps or give up the Spanish Mod. So I would like to prioritize the Spanish Mod and Espionage.

I can agree to that. Though I think we're all prepared to cut the civics mission.

[Calanthian]

Cutting the civics mission is fine. Cutting nukes I can live with. The Spanish mod we could also use.

But on corps (YES) and always war (NO) we all have a very clear opinion.

[OzzyKP]

Cutting the civics mission is fine. Cutting nukes I can live with. The Spanish mod we could also use.

But on corps (YES) and always war (NO) we all have a very clear opinion.

Agreed.

[Calanthian]

PS. Check this thread out: http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/s...?t=4387&page=3

Now it is clear to me why they want to get rid of all chance related items: this is the accountant approach to civving..

of course strategizing, optimizing and economizing are key elements to good civving,
but calculating to the hammer 30 to 40 turns ahead is a bit much.

I think we have a more creative, flexible approach..

[DNK]

So, we need to discuss the following still:

- known tech bonus (vanilla 30% or higher, like 100%)
- engineered starts (yes/no)
- wrap (none, 1-axis, 2-axis)
- mirrored starts (yes/no)
- type of script (donut/pangaea/continents/archipelago/etc)
- restricted leaders (on/off)
- can have many instances of a leader (leaders exclusive to one team, or not)
- method of assignment (....)

I think known tech bonus works well at 100% for MP. It keeps civs from getting totally behind in tech, plus it moves the pace forward in total, and allows 2nd-tier teching civs a chance to still get up and be the first to get some techs. Basically, it keeps people in the game, which is important without trading (which will be off for this game).

I dislike engineered starts just because it adds that much more time to the preparation phase, and I'd rather just trust a solid map maker with the job than have everyone designing their own corner.

I've said before that toroidal wrap is the only way to go for maximum neighbor connections and diplomacy. The increase in maintenance costs will cut down expansion speed a bit. So, there is less reason for players to go to war early due to slower expansion rates (good, keeps everyone in the game longer), while war becomes less profitable later on due to maintenance costs (so perhaps more limited wars will occur), and those who do get huge conquests will have to pay dearly for them, meaning other players will still have a chance to strike back and organize before that player pulls away, as he is encumbered by high maintenance costs. This doesn't stop war from occurring, but makes it a slower or more painful process even for the victor, which keeps everyone in the game longer, and keeps the game more dynamic, imo, when civs aren't knocked out early and often.

I think they agreed to something like pangaea before this all started, and that's fine. I haven't much opinion on the other issues.

[Ben Kenobi]

Now it is clear to me why they want to get rid of all chance related items: this is the accountant approach to civving..

of course strategizing, optimizing and economizing are key elements to good civving,
but calculating to the hammer 30 to 40 turns ahead is a bit much.

I think we have a more creative, flexible approach..

Well, how can we exploit this approach? What can we do to get them out of their comfort zone? It seems to me that building up and trying to outtech them is a passive approach. I think we should try to run them over. If we are choosing not to interact with them, that is giving them the initiative and gives them total control.

Could we zerg rush them successfully?

Edit -spies are very useful to the rushing civ - as is the double move. It really depends on how we want to approach things. I think we should decide on the common strategy first, and then decide on the settings.

I'm confident that Apolyton does many things well, and rather then committing to one approach, we can be more of a wildcard, but we need to figure out how we are going to attack this first.

[Calanthian]

Further strategy discussions should happen in the dedicated, closed, forum.

Look in your pm to find Ozzy's invitation.

[Calanthian]

accountant approach to civving..

By the way: with barbarians ON this approach doesn't work.

[DNK]

Well, how can we exploit this approach? What can we do to get them out of their comfort zone? It seems to me that building up and trying to outtech them is a passive approach. I think we should try to run them over. If we are choosing not to interact with them, that is giving them the initiative and gives them total control.

Could we zerg rush them successfully?

Well, there are going to be like 8+ teams in this game, there's no reason to start formulating a plan around one of them. Let's wait and see what we're actually up against first. RB isn't destined to be the top dog either...

Further strategy discussions should happen in the dedicated, closed, forum.

And this, I suppose.

Anyone else interested in helping with intel ops, or am I going to be alone? I've already started developing a super top secret intel sheet for the game - rough indeed, but it should prove quite useful. It's a PITA to do every turn, though, so if anyone's up for it I could use another person You get to learn the top secret DNK formulas for divining hard GNP/power numbers from the demo screen, for one... (they're not that special, but still!)

[OzzyKP]

Anyone else interested in helping with intel ops, or am I going to be alone? I've already started developing a super top secret intel sheet for the game - rough indeed, but it should prove quite useful. It's a PITA to do every turn, though, so if anyone's up for it I could use another person You get to learn the top secret DNK formulas for divining hard GNP/power numbers from the demo screen, for one... (they're not that special, but still!)

Start a thread for it in the other forum.

[Robert Plomp]

The Polish Site also wants to join.
I've redirected them to the CFC thread.

[OzzyKP]

The Polish Site also wants to join.
I've redirected them to the CFC thread.

Awesome! So are we up to 9 sites now? This is going to be one hell of a game!

Isn't there an active Russian civ community too?

[Robert Plomp]

Tried to contact them, no contact yet.
Some sites didn't survive the release of civ5...

[OzzyKP]

A Chinese civ forum has been found and they've been invited too!

No responses yet, but here is the thread. This may be the biggest civ game ever!

[Robert Plomp]

Can we play with civ players?
Don't they have a modded version of the game?

[2metraninja]

They use a mod normally, but only for their tournaments. The mod removes few bugs and exploits.

[Calanthian]

The main discussion on this game is lively and is moved to the closed subforum.
If you want access let Ozzy know.

[alecs76ro]

Hi,

I'm interested!

Alex

[Canuckistan]

I'm totally new to multiplayer games and as such I will not have anything to offer. I have played Civ since 1991 and Civ IV for several years now, but these muliplayer games, mods, and expansion packs can really change the dynamics from what I can tell from reading these forums so far.

I would however like to join this team if at all possible?

The only way to learn is to get your feet wet right? This seems like a great learning opportunity.