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Thread: NHL Off-season Thread

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    Asher
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    NHL Off-season Thread

    Flames just signed one of the KHL's top players to a 1 year, $3.7M deal: Roman Cervenka.

    Never heard of the dude before, but hey, it's something new.

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    Supr49er
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    I remember him from the Olympics.
    And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?". t s eliot

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    notyoueither
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    I assume this is a sign that Calgary is going to keep with their aging core for as long as they last.
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    Asher
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    I don't think it's a sign either way;

    Besides, who is the core? Iginla and Kipper are the only ones left. I think it would make sense to trade them for some prospects, as much as I like them both.

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    Ben Kenobi
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    Besides, who is the core? Iginla and Kipper are the only ones left. I think it would make sense to trade them for some prospects, as much as I like them both.
    Didn't I say that last year? I think Calgary should hang onto both of them. They won't get fair value for either now.
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    Asher
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    No one cares for your opinion on hockey...or just about anything, Ben.

    I was for trading them last year as well. There's still tremendous value for them now.

    Kipper should get more in return than Luongo would. He's a better goaltender without a stupid contract.
    Iginla is still one of the best forwards in the game with a short contract left, too.

    Both are valuable additions to any cup contender.

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    Ben Kenobi
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    Kipper should get more in return than Luongo would. He's a better goaltender without a stupid contract.
    He's also 37.

    Iginla is still one of the best forwards in the game with a short contract left, too.
    Alexandre Burrows:

    28 g 24a 52 points +24

    Jarome Iginla

    32g 35a 67 points -10.

    He's a liability. As a first line sniper, he's 19th in the league. Below average, and he's 34. For 4 fewer goals, you can get Burrows at 2 million, who's younger, instead of paying Iginla 7 million.
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    Asher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
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    He's also 37.
    He's 35 and Luongo is 33.
    The difference is Kiprusoff put up better numbers on a worse team and isn't known to **** the bed in the playoffs and has won hardware. Oh, and he has $6.5M total left on his contract ($5M next, $1.5 for 13/14). Luongo has $54M left on his. Also, Kipper doesn't have the ego or reputation for being mentally weak.

    Alexandre Burrows:

    28 g 24a 52 points +24

    Jarome Iginla

    32g 35a 67 points -10.

    He's a liability. As a first line sniper, he's 19th in the league. Below average, and he's 34. For 4 fewer goals, you can get Burrows at 2 million, who's younger, instead of paying Iginla 7 million.
    Yes, Burrows and Iginla are comparable players and bring the same thing to teams. Any cup contender would be begging for Burrows on their team, won't they? Why the **** would they want some tool like Iginla when they can get the real deal in Burrows?

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    Ben Kenobi
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    The difference is Kiprusoff put up better numbers on a worse team and isn't known to **** the bed in the playoffs and has won hardware. Oh, and he has $6.5M total left on his contract ($5M next, $1.5 for 13/14). Luongo has $54M left on his. Also, Kipper doesn't have the ego or reputation for being mentally weak.
    And yet Luongo has a superior playoff and regular season record, and is younger, and is known for actually being able to carry teams into the playoffs. I guess if you're Columbus you'll want someone like Kipper.

    Why the **** would they want some tool like Iginla when they can get the real deal in Burrows
    Because they can get 90 percent of the production for 30 percent of the cost? Iggy at 7 is a terrible deal.
    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
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    Asher
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    You are right. Luongo is famous for taking a team that had no business in the playoffs to game 7 of the finals when he was with Florida. Kiprusoff never did this. He always had the luxury of a ridiculously talented team in front of him.

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    Ben Kenobi
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    Luongo is famous for taking a team that had no business in the playoffs
    So you're saying that Calgary's SCF in 2004 was a fluke? Glad to hear it.
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    Asher
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    It wasn't a fluke. It was because of Kiprusoff.

    Kiprusoff carried that team to the SCF. Luongo only gets into the playoffs by coasting on a talented team. When he doesn't have the most talented team, he never makes the playoffs. Hell, even WITH a talented team infront of him Luongo has managed to miss the playoffs. Hell, even when he makes the playoffs with a talented team infront of him, he's designated as the backup to some kid.

    Luongo's trade value is very low right now. Kiprusoff would be in far higher demand on the trade market.

    Kipper is a clutch goaltender. Luongo shits the bed if there's any pressure.

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    Kipper is a clutch goaltender. Luongo shits the bed if there's any pressure.
    Which is why Kipper chokes whenever he sniffs the playoffs. They haven't won a series in almost a decade.
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    Asher
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    Any idiot could look at his numbers and see he doesn't choke during the playoffs. Any hockey fan can remember the series and recall Kiprusoff kept the team in those series for longer than they deserved, most often.

    You continually conflate a team with a goaltender. A goaltender cannot score, but can only keep pucks out. Kiprusoff has better numbers over Luongo across the board in that area. Further, Kiprusoff is consistent in the playoffs and reliable. You never know which Luongo will show up in a playoff game, which wrecks a team's confidence.

    A team with Kiprusoff on it has never lost a series in less than six games -- and he's lost playoff series with save percentages like 92.9%. You can't blame those losses on the goaltender if the team in front of him rarely scores.

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    Ben Kenobi
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    Any hockey fan can remember the series and recall Kiprusoff kept the team in those series for longer than they deserved, most often.
    Yeah, a decade ago. Things change, Asher. Are you willing to gamble that the magical kipper of 2004 is the same as the kipper today? Makes no sense to me.
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    I wonder how many Cups the Sharks would have if they kept Kiprusoff?
    And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?". t s eliot

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    Asher
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    Certainly more than they have now.

    Clutch goaltending would've been the difference...

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    Ben, do you seriously think that Burrows is more valuable than Iginla?
    "The boastful seeks the company of parasites." (Spinoza)

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    Ben Kenobi
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    Ben, do you seriously think that Burrows is more valuable than Iginla?
    Burrows at 2 is more valuable than Iggy at 7. I don't think Iggy is worth 3.25x what Burrows is worth. If Burrows is getting 2, I could see Iggy at 3. At 7, Iggy is a liability.
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    Asher
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    Burrows does have a nice contract, because Burrows isn't smart enough to get anything better.

    But when you're building a team for a cup run, you don't go for value. Burrows is the liability - his antics divide a team and embarrass many of them. He's distracting. Iginla is a consummate team guy with plenty of experience and leadership skills, not to mention a better player across the board.

    I'm sure if you asked every GM who they'd prefer to acquire at the trade deadline - Iginla at 7 or Burrows at 2, every single one of them would pick Iginla.

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    I'd take Iggy too at the trade deadline.
    "The boastful seeks the company of parasites." (Spinoza)

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    Ben Kenobi
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    I'm sure if you asked every GM who they'd prefer to acquire at the trade deadline - Iginla at 7 or Burrows at 2, every single one of them would pick Iginla.
    You can put 5 million and get yourself another really good player. But I guess this is Calgary's method. Spend on Iggy and miss the playoffs due to lack of depth.
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    Asher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
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    You can put 5 million and get yourself another really good player. But I guess this is Calgary's method. Spend on Iggy and miss the playoffs due to lack of depth.
    Yep. Iggy's the reason Calgary missed the playoffs. It wasn't the fact that Sutter traded away any high draft pick over the past five years and drafted poorly when he did have picks, and signed a bunch of washed up geriatrics to contracts hoping they'd relive their glory days.

    PS: I wouldn't want Burrows on my team for league minimum salary. There's such a thing as a distraction and a negative influence. His numbers are inflated due to linemates anyway.

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    Ben Kenobi
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    signed a bunch of washed up geriatrics to contracts hoping they'd relive their glory days.
    Kipper and Iggy?
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    Asher
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    Yep. Sutter traded for and signed them to contracts when they were geriatrics. Very good, Ben.

    FWIW, Iginla and Kiprusoff continue to be the Flames that consistently deliver. Anyone who says they are why the Flames missed the playoffs must be a Canucks fan or Texan.

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    FWIW, Iginla and Kiprusoff continue to be the Flames that consistently deliver. Anyone who says they are why the Flames missed the playoffs must be a Canucks fan or Texan.
    Flames would be better off without both of them.
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    Asher
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    Yep. If they had Cloutier and Linden instead, they'd have won a dozen cups by now. They are clearly the weak links.

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    Iggy is by no means overpriced, Ben.
    "The boastful seeks the company of parasites." (Spinoza)

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    Asher
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    11 straight seasons of 30 goals or more. How many other players can boast that?

    (And very nearly 13 straight seasons -- he had 28 and 29 in the first two)

    Last season he was #3 in the league for goals, IIRC.

    This season he slipped to 17, technically, but if he scored a couple more he'd be in the top 10 again (they bunch up around the 32-35 mark)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
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    Yeah, a decade ago. Things change, Asher. Are you willing to gamble that the magical kipper of 2004 is the same as the kipper today? Makes no sense to me.

    Actually his level of play this year was extremely high. There are many pundits and commentators including Lanny MacDonald who lamented how bad the Flames were this year and made the point thatr the only reason they weren't down in the standings with Columbus was the excellenceof Kipper.

    For a team
    1. looking to win right now and not wanting a long term obligation OR
    2. where the actual dollars matter and the cap hit is less relevent

    for both these types of team, Kipper is the better bargain-- Two years of a high level guy at less money is way better than 10-12 years of a guy two years younger at more money
    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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