Fair is fair . . . Georgia Democrats propose an anti-vasectomy bill

[Dinner]

do you even know what youre talking about in relation to the law and medicine.

Of course not, the man is a dumb ass. This law has passed both houses of the Virginia legislature and is currently at the governor's desk; it requires women to involuntarily have a giant probe stuffed up their viginas, it is 100% medically unnecessary, and just about every doctor is against it. Republicans love it though because they think any woman who wants an abortion, even if she's raped, is a dirty whore who deserves to be raped again. Republicans are horrible human beings.

[regexcellent]

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?121+sum+HB462

It has not passed the senate. This is the Virginia House bill that has generated so much controversy. Get your frickin' facts right.

The point isn't for it to be medically necessary; the idea is that if a woman considering an abortion sees that there is something inside her uterus with a beating heart etc etc she'll change her mind. I don't know if that's true but whatever. That doesn't make Republicans horrible human beings. In fact, if they truly believe that abortion is murder, and by and large they do, then anything that stops some abortions would make them saints from that worldview.

Stop being so histrionic. See the other side's perspective a little. It's instructive.

EDIT: I just noticed that this bill was sponsored by a woman. I guess if this is a war on women, it's a civil war then, eh? Christ people need to tone it down.

[Aeson]

By the same logic I propose we stick stuff up the butt of anyone who is against gay marriage. I mean, it might help them see how beautiful the butt-sex is...

[Aeson]

Seriously though, would this apply to day after pills too?

[regexcellent]

No.

[gribbler]

The point isn't for it to be medically necessary; the idea is that if a woman considering an abortion sees that there is something inside her uterus with a beating heart etc etc she'll change her mind.

So they think women are just too ****ing stupid for them to realize that a fetus has a beating heart? Are the Republicans trying to convince everyone that they have no respect for women?

[Dinner]

"Oh, we just love fetuses so much we think dirty whores should be raped and have things involuntarily forced into their vaginas." No, they're horrible human beings all right, by any definition imaginable.

[Elok]

Is it possible to have something voluntarily forced on you?

Also, are you aware that you've surpassed Kidicious at histrionic rhetoric?

[gribbler]

"Oh, we just love fetuses so much we think dirty whores should be raped and have things involuntarily forced into their vaginas." No, they're horrible human beings all right, by any definition imaginable.

Well if you're Ben Kenobi then you already believe that the US liberated the indians and black people were better off under slavery so it might not be such a leap to conclude that women will appreciate having a wand stuck up their vagina and will graciously change their mind and decide they don't want to remove the fetus.

[gribbler]

Is it possible to have something voluntarily forced on you?

If the alternative is even worse than yes, it's being forced on you. Threatening to stick something up a woman's vagina will not make her ready to have a child.

[Elok]

Whooooosssshhh...

[regexcellent]

So they think women are just too ****ing stupid for them to realize that a fetus has a beating heart? Are the Republicans trying to convince everyone that they have no respect for women?

Jesus Christ, no. It is conceivable that ACTUALLY SEEING THE FETUS which has a VAGUELY HUMAN SHAPE might get people to change their minds. Abortions are a Big Decision. I can totally believe that some people would have second thoughts.

You keep framing this in terms of "respect for women." It is not and has never been about respect for women. To Republicans it is about the rights of an unborn child, not women. They do not believe women's rights are being violated any more than they believe men's rights are being violated when we ban them from killing their wives.

You and Oerdin pardon me Dinner are refusing to see the fact that there are two legitimate sides to this debate, which is why it exists in the first place.

[gribbler]

Jesus Christ, no. It is conceivable that ACTUALLY SEEING THE FETUS which has a VAGUELY HUMAN SHAPE might get people to change their minds. Abortions are a Big Decision. I can totally believe that some people would have second thoughts.

You keep framing this in terms of "respect for women." It is not and has never been about respect for women. To Republicans it is about the rights of an unborn child, not women. They do not believe women's rights are being violated any more than they believe men's rights are being violated when we ban them from killing their wives.

You and Oerdin pardon me Dinner are refusing to see the fact that there are two legitimate sides to this debate, which is why it exists in the first place.

When the "other side of the debate" advocates paternalistic legislation that treats women like children then I am not going to pretend both sides are equally valid. Women are, in fact, not retarded and are not going to be shocked when a fetus has a "vaguely human shape". Republicans want the government to establish a policy that assumes women are not capable of making a big decision on their own and need to be helped along against their will. And, of course, pro-lifers somehow can't accept that they've lost and can't make abortion illegal so they'll keep trying to put in bullshit government regulations that invade the privacy of Americans in an attempt to make it effectively illegal.

[Aeson]

They do not believe women's rights are being violated any more than they believe men's rights are being violated when we [require they get anal probes if they want to do something we don't agree with].

Fixed.

[Dinner]

Is it possible to have something voluntarily forced on you?

Also, are you aware that you've surpassed Kidicious at histrionic rhetoric?

Bullshit. The whole forcing things into women's vaginas should have been your que that you're wrong.

[DaShi]

cue

[Aeson]

No.

Are you sure? It says "every pregnant female" would be required to have the ultrasound.

[regexcellent]

Fixed.

Suppose murder were legal, and the Republicans were trying to pass a measure saying anyone who murders has to get an anal probe. It would be a huge improvement, wouldn't it?

[regexcellent]

Are you sure? It says "every pregnant female" would be required to have the ultrasound.

Yes I'm sure because it has to do with the procedure of abortion, not the morning after pill. The morning after pill iirc doesn't work after the egg has been fertilized; that usually takes a couple of days anyway.

[Dinner]

The good news is more than half of voters are women and Republicans are dropping like stones in polls with them. I fully expect women voters to punish these bastards at the polls exactly how they deserve to be punished. Kiss 2012 good bye, GOP, you horrible human beings.

[regexcellent]

Lots of women support anti-abortion measures. As I pointed out before, the sponsor for that bill IS A WOMAN. Get your **** straight.

[Dinner]

Jesus Christ, no. It is conceivable that ACTUALLY SEEING THE FETUS which has a VAGUELY HUMAN SHAPE might get people to change their minds. Abortions are a Big Decision.

Yeah, and guess what? It's ENTIRELY her decision, sure as **** not yours, and no one gives a **** what you think about this private, personal medical decision so learn to mind your own ****ing business you smarmy little ****.

[Aeson]

Suppose murder were legal, and the Republicans were trying to pass a measure saying anyone who murders has to get an anal probe. It would be a huge improvement, wouldn't it?

No. You'd just get a lot of "Family Values" Republicans murdering people to get their jollies after...

[Dinner]

Lots of women support anti-abortion measures. As I pointed out before, the sponsor for that bill IS A WOMAN. Get your **** straight.

Here's a fact for you, Republicans have dropped by more than 10 points in the last two week among independent women. Suck on it, savor it, and realize you're on the wrong side of this, bucko. Even former RNC chairman Micheal Steel has said the GOP is going off the cliff on this one.

[gribbler]

Lots of women support anti-abortion measures. As I pointed out before, the sponsor for that bill IS A WOMAN. Get your **** straight.

A woman said it, therefore it can't be sexist!

[regexcellent]

Have I once in this thread made a claim as to my stance on abortion? (Answer: no)

I'm not trying to argue that the Republicans are right. I'm just trying to argue that they aren't anti-female Nazis and that there is a legitimate logical thought process behind this policy, if you take the assumption that abortion is murder.

[DaShi]

You've already failed at that due to extremely weak arguments. Now they are just gnawing at your carcass.

[Dinner]

Yes I'm sure because it has to do with the procedure of abortion, not the morning after pill. The morning after pill iirc doesn't work after the egg has been fertilized; that usually takes a couple of days anyway.

This one, but the Virgina house also has a "life begins at conception" bill pending which despite the contrary is aimed at making birth control, morning after pills, and, yes, abortion illegal even though the SCotUS has said it's illegal to make abortion illegal. Take about wasteful big government by the GOP.

[regexcellent]

Rather, nobody is willing to acknowledge that there is a belief which exists out there that many people hold that abortion = murder and all this talk of women's rights and whatever goes out the window if you think that's true. It is not a hard concept! This is just a bunch of left-wingers refusing to believe that their political opponents have any kind of legitimacy and willfully ignoring any argument or evidence to that effect.

[gribbler]

Have I once in this thread made a claim as to my stance on abortion? (Answer: no)

I'm not trying to argue that the Republicans are right. I'm just trying to argue that they aren't anti-female Nazis and that there is a legitimate logical thought process behind this policy, if you take the assumption that abortion is murder.

There might be a logical thought process involving the assumption that abortion is murder that leads to bombing abortion clinics. The Nazis might have entertained a logical thought process based on assumptions at some point. So what?