Government Employees Are the Scum of the Earth

[Tupac Shakur]

The thread title is purposefully hyperbolic, but seriously, **** these spoiled bastards...

most dictionaries define a millionaire as someone with wealth (i.e., assets) of $1 million. By that definition, many New York teachers and the vast majority of police and firefighters are millionaires, because the “net present value” of their retirement benefits is well in excess of $1 million.

That is, if they had to fund their retirements from their own savings, they’d have to set aside seven figures today.

Few who don’t work for the government sector have comparable assets. Over the last several decades, the private sector has moved increasingly to the 401(k)-style “defined contribution” model, which yields a retirement nest egg based on what both employers and employees have contributed to individual accounts.

Public-sector workers, on the other hand, still rely on “defined benefit” pensions, which provide a guaranteed stream of income based on career longevity and late-career peak salaries.

A New York City public-school teacher earning $100,000 can retire at 55 with a pension of $60,000. A private-sector worker would need $1.2 million to buy an annuity with the same yield and starting at the same (relatively young) age, according to the online pension calculator developed by the Manhattan Institute’s Empire Center.

It would take an even larger nest egg to replicate the pension income of city police officers, who typically retire in their 40s. According to data posted at SeeThroughNY, an Empire Center Web site, the average newly retired city cop collects a pension of $58,563 — plus a $12,000 annual supplement.

(Of course, public-sector workers also receive lavish health-care retirement benefits.)

Few private-sector workers have anything close to $1 million socked away in their retirement accounts. According to the Federal Reserve, the average worker in his late 50s has a balance of $85,600 in his retirement account, and a net worth of $222,300 overall.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...#ixzz1fLGIZxEe

[Tupac Shakur]

Cops and firefighters also get paid too much.

Let me be clear: Many public-sector employees — especially frontline employees like teachers, cops and firefighters — have difficult, important and often dangerous jobs. They deserve to be well-compensated. And, for the most part, they are. After six years, police and firefighters can earn more than $90,000, excluding overtime.

[Pax]

It's always good if you can attack or turn the working class against each other.

[loinburger]

When I worked for the air force research laboratory my boss called the pension "golden handcuffs" - you could make more money and do more interesting work in the private sector, but past a certain point you'd be ****ing yourself over if you gave up your government pension.

[Tupac Shakur]

I wonder if the same dynamic exists at the state government level, since I've heard that federal government employees (while still spoiled) tend to get less lavish benefits than their state counterparts because they aren't allowed to collectively bargain.

[loinburger]

The only "collective bargaining" I witnessed had nothing to do with wages and had everything to do with putting generals in their place. "I'm a general and I order you to do whatever!" "**** off, we're civilians." I actually saw a 2-star general removed from his command for trying to command civilians (who then complained to Congress, who then complained to the 2-star general's 4-star general commander), which was awesome.

[Jon Miller]

There are a lot that don't make much and struggle to make ends meet.

JM

[Imran Siddiqui]

I wonder if the same dynamic exists at the state government level, since I've heard that federal government employees (while still spoiled) tend to get less lavish benefits than their state counterparts because they aren't allowed to collectively bargain.

This is a strange post. Federal government employees ARE allowed to collectively bargain, but yes, they get less lavish benefits. It's most 401(k) type retirement (the TSP) for Federal government employees who started work after 1985 (or something like that).

[Tupac Shakur]

This is a strange post. Federal government employees ARE allowed to collectively bargain

The laws governing local, regional, and national governments may allow government employees to form unions, yet prohibit them from engaging in collective bargaining over one or more rights or benefits such as pay, personnel rights, health insurance, or pension contributions, as well as preventing them from going on strike against the government. Both the federal government and some state and local governments in the United States have such rules.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collect...ment_employees

[Berzerker]

greeced palms

[Tupac Shakur]

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

FDR

[Pax]

Cops and firefighters also get paid too much.

Let me be clear: Many public-sector employees — especially frontline employees like teachers, cops and firefighters — have difficult, important and often dangerous jobs. They deserve to be well-compensated. And, for the most part, they are. After six years, police and firefighters can earn more than $90,000, excluding overtime.

This really depends on where you work. 90k salary after 6 yrs is not true for my Department. Although, I do believe that what most people think about unions and salaries for Police Officers probably applies to NYPD, Chicago PD or LAPD.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The laws governing local, regional, and national governments may allow government employees to form unions, yet prohibit them from engaging in collective bargaining over one or more rights or benefits such as pay, personnel rights, health insurance, or pension contributions, as well as preventing them from going on strike against the government. Both the federal government and some state and local governments in the United States have such rules.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collect...ment_employees

The "such rules" is say preventing essential government employees from going on strike. Federal Employee Unions most definitely collectively bargain over pay, personnel rights, health insurance, and pension contributions - though because of the nature of federal employees, that collective bargaining looks more like lobbying Congress.

[Tupac Shakur]

The "such rules" is say preventing essential government employees from going on strike. Federal Employee Unions most definitely collectively bargain over pay, personnel rights, health insurance, and pension contributions - though because of the nature of federal employees, that collective bargaining looks more like lobbying Congress.

"The scope of mandatory collective bargaining for federal employees is limited to personnel employment practices only. Basic working conditions such as wages, hours of work, and employee benefits are instead subject to statutory provisions." - Civil Service Reform Act of 1978

http://www.opm.gov/biographyofanideal/PU_CSreform.htm

[Imran Siddiqui]

Exactly what I said - because of the nature of federal employees that collective bargaining is more in the realm of lobbying Congress.

Which is exactly what state unions have to do with their legislative branches as well.

[Tupac Shakur]

Exactly what I said - because of the nature of federal employees that collective bargaining is more in the realm of lobbying Congress.

So it's lobbying then, not collective bargaining.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Explain to me how that's so different from state employee unions & why that would result in vastly different retirement packages as a result as you asserted in post #5?

[Tupac Shakur]

I think I've done enough explaining to you for one night. Thank you for providing a demonstration of the competence of the average government employee, though.

[Sava]

my dad worked for the state of IL pretty much his whole adult life
his pension and benefits were not great
one would have to be a serious fuktard to think government employees get paid well

[Sava]

Cops and firefighters also get paid too much.

and i mean... SERIOUS fuktard
like your dad shot in your moms ass, it dribbled down to her cooch, **** stained spunk impregnated motherfuktard...

[Sava]

hypothetically speaking of course
i am by no means speaking of anyone in particular

[Tupac Shakur]

hypothetically speaking of course
i am by no means speaking of anyone in particular

I laughed.

[KrazyHorse]

my dad worked for the state of IL pretty much his whole adult life
his pension and benefits were not great
one would have to be a serious fuktard to think government employees get paid well

Yeah, and my mom works for the province of QC. She is a useless **** and she gets paid 75k a year to teach kindergarten. Nowhere in the private sector could she possibly get paid that much. **** government workers.

[Sava]

Yeah, and my mom works for the province of QC. She is a useless **** and she gets paid 75k a year to teach kindergarten. Nowhere in the private sector could she possibly get paid that much. **** government workers.

Thank you for providing a perfect example of what I was describing.

[Kuciwalker]

NPV of benefits isn't the useful number when trying to measure the generosity of pension benefits. Based on the NYCERS CAFR the cost of the pension benefits provided to New York City employees is in the neighborhood of 10-20% of salary (I can't get a tighter range than that from 15 minutes of perusing the NYCERS website). So just take their salaries, add on 20%, and see if you think they're reasonable...

[Tupac Shakur]

So just take their salaries, add on 20%, and see if you think they're reasonable...

Nope.

[Sava]

NPV of benefits isn't the useful number when trying to measure the generosity of pension benefits. Based on the NYCERS CAFR the cost of the pension benefits provided to New York City employees is in the neighborhood of 10-20% of salary (I can't get a tighter range than that from 15 minutes of perusing the NYCERS website). So just take their salaries, add on 20%, and see if you think they're reasonable...

Dare I speak to someone who doesn't live in the real world. But your analysis of government "benefits" doesn't take into account health care... where insurance companies will refuse to cover or reimburse almost anything.

Need to test for lupus? $1800 bill.

20 or 30 years ago, a married couple with dual coverage (hubbie and wife both have primaries) used to have nearly zero out of pocket costs. Now? Maybe 20-40% is covered... on average.

But yeah... totally unreasonable benefits grrrr RAGE

People who get sick should end up with tens or hundreds of thousands in medical bills... because they are useless

[Mojotronica]

It's a common tactic of managers of government agencies and large institutions (even privately-held institutions) to increase benefits by back-loading them in fat pensions. That way, in the short term, the institution/agency looks thrifty with quality employees at low salaries. Eventually, after the manager retires, the pensions start coming due leaving the institution insolvent. Your anger at the beneficiaries of the pensions is mis-directed, you should be angry at management that created the problem for short-term, partisan, personal, political gain.

The employees are simply making the most of their potential earning power, which is completely in line with free-market capitalist ideology. Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

[KrazyHorse]

Your father was a useless overpaid **** just like my mother. is. **** government workers.

[Sava]

you should be angry at management that created the problem for short-term, partisan, personal, political gain

word

the same management that raids said funds
but when they steal everybody's future, it's because they are useful

eventually, the ire will be correctly directed at fake industries that leech from the real economy



and hopefully, they will be shot