"NFL Football is Back!" 2011 Season Thread

[Ben Kenobi]

Are you high?

Hrm? No.

On defense, they added Jason Babin fresh off a 12.5 sack Pro Bowl season to pair with 2-time Pro Bowler Trent Cole. They added big Cullen Jenkins fresh off 7 sacks last year with Green Bay to their defensive line, as well. In the secondary, they had Pro Bowler Asante Samuel but he's now the freaking nickelback behind the best CB in the league, Nnamdi Asomugha, and another Pro Bowl CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.

Ok.

On offense, the explosive Desean Jackson and Lesean McCoy, the very good Jeremy Maclin and Brent Celek, and the sure-handed Jason Avant weren't enough... They added the Giants franchise leader in season receptions Steve Smith and Pro Bowl runningback Ronnie Brown.

Ok.

Dude, this is insanity. The team was a playoff team last year and it has added a whole another team's worth of stars

The Chargers have more talent, and they, like the Eagles were on the outside, looking in. The Chargers also have a legit first string QB.

Are the Eagles a playoff team? No, not yet. They haven't proven that they can do it in the crunch, and that's where they've consistantly come up short.

At least with McNabb, the Eagles were a contender every year. Vick so far hasn't proven that he's got what it takes to carry the Eagles all the way.

From what I can see, there's at least 3 NFC teams that are better then the Eagles. The Saints, Falcons, and the Packers are all better.

[Ben Kenobi]

You know, last year, the Eagles offense was based on Kolb but Vick just took it over. Now, Andy Reid has had a full year to figure out how to build an offense around Vick.

So that's your excuse?

A carousel isn't good for building a team together. The problem with Vick is that he's not a 'force multiplier', like all the top tier QBs. The job of a QB is to make everyone else that much better. Vick doesn't do that.

Look at Rivers. He lost his first string RB, TE and his first and second and third string wide receivers and still put up career numbers.

It doesn't matter how many weapons you surround Vick with because he doesn't use them effectively.

[OzzyKP]

They can be the Miami Heat of the NFL.

Or the Phillies of the NFL...

[Al B. Sure!]

The Chargers have more talent,

No. They don't. They really really don't.

and they, like the Eagles were on the outside, looking in.

The Chargers didn't make the playoffs last year. The Eagles did. What the hell are you talking about?

Are the Eagles a playoff team? No, not yet.

What the ****? They made the playoffs last year! Lost in the final seconds to the Super Bowl champs. Riley Cooper makes that catch (or Akers doesn't miss two field goals) and the Eagles win. The Packers go home.

At least with McNabb, the Eagles were a contender every year. Vick so far hasn't proven that he's got what it takes to carry the Eagles all the way.

He's had one season where he didn't even begin the year as a starter and the Eagles made the playoffs. What the hell are you talking about?

Dude, Philip Rivers is 3-4 in the playoffs. Vick is 2-3. It's not like Rivers turns on in the playoffs

[Al B. Sure!]

The problem with Vick is that he's not a 'force multiplier', like all the top tier QBs.

Vick, Vince Young, or any other mobile QB, adds another player to the offense. By being on the field, defenses are forced to put a man in spy or containment which means one less defensive player in coverage or blitzing. Having a mobile QB turns what is otherwise a 10 on 11 game in favor of the defense into an 11 on 11. It means instead of a maximum of 5 guys who can catch or run, you have 6. That is huge. It tilts the balance of the game of football in favor of the offense.

[Al B. Sure!]

You must love being a Giants fan.

Jerry Reese has been a great GM since he took over but this offseason has been miserable. Both of Eli's short targets are gone, with Smith and Kevin Boss to Oakland. Manningham is a deep threat and while Nicks has the skills to be a complete receiver, we haven't seen him be much more than a deep threat and red zone target, either. It's worrisome because Eli has always had a security blanket whether it was Shockey, Toomer, Tiki, or more recently, Smith and Boss. And Steve Smith was a die-hard Giant who was a rookie on the SB-winning team. And he was signed for peanuts by the Eagles. The Giants weren't willing to give him $2 million, probably less with the 'hometown' discount? REALLY?!


They bring in the underwhelming Ben Patrick who retires the day after Kevin Boss goes to Oakland. Apparently, Patrick only wanted to be a Giant to be team-mates with Boss!

Then, Umenyiora made a fuss about his contract and now he's unsurprisingly injured. Prince Amukamara is also hurt and may miss the season!

Half the offensive line was released... Shaun O'Hara, Rich Seubert, Shawn Andrews. The backups are getting promoted and guys like David Diehl are getting shuffled. This had been possibly the best offensive line in football both in pass protection and in run blocking over the past few years, too.

There have been only 4 FA acquisitions who didn't retire immediately... David Baas who will now be the starting center, David Carr (), some backup nose-tackle, and a punter.

The Giants have never been a flashy FA team but this is the worst offseason in recent memory.

Fortunately, Eli is still there. Manningham/Nicks are still there. The runningbacks are still there. And Tuck/Kiwanuka are still there. As long as those guys stay healthy, the Giants will be fine.

[Ben Kenobi]

No. They don't. They really really don't.

Sproles, Mathews and Tolbert at RB?

Jackson, Floyd, Gates

Rivers at QB.

They are still the most stacked team on offense.

[Ben Kenobi]

Vick, Vince Young, or any other mobile QB, adds another player to the offense.

You miss the point. For the Eagles to be strong they have to take advantage of their weapons. They don't *need* Vick to run the ball, they need a pocket passer who will distribute the ball to all the WRs, like Brees, Rivers, Manning, Brady, etc. Someone who's willing to take an ego check and hand off to his RBs. Vick's a very bad fit for this Eagles' team.

Him runnning takes away from the team as a whole, and actually weakens the RBs and WRs.

That is huge. It tilts the balance of the game of football in favor of the offense.

Yeah, you put a man on Vick and then you don't have to worry about a WR and a RB, meaning that it's 11 on 9 with Vick out there.

[Al B. Sure!]

Sproles, Mathews and Tolbert at RB?

Jackson, Floyd, Gates

Rivers at QB.

They are still the most stacked team on offense.

Sproles plays for the Saints, dumbass.

Matthews did nothing last year and he's stinking it up in camp. Mike Tolbert is a running fullback.

What has Malcom Floyd done? He's never had more than 45 catches for 776 yards. In 6 years, he's totaled 2314 career yards.

Vincent Jackson is no better than Desean Jackson, in all honesty. There are too many WR's in the NFL who are clearly better than Vincent Jackson. Vincent Jackson has averaged 608 yards per season over 6 years. He's mediocre at best.


Most stacked team on offense? Is this a joke? Dude, they have Rivers and Gates. Everyone else is mediocre.

[Ben Kenobi]

Matthews did nothing last year and he's stinking it up in camp. Mike Tolbert is a running fullback.

Tolbert did about as well as McCoy did last year and Mathews is young and healthy as opposed to Ronnie Brown.

What has Malcom Floyd done? He's never had more than 45 catches for 776 yards. In 6 years, he's totaled 2314 career yards.

Yeah, and like Vick, hasn't played a full season.

Vincent Jackson is no better than Desean Jackson, in all honesty. There are too many WR's in the NFL who are clearly better than Vincent Jackson.

That seems about right to me.

Most stacked team on offense? Is this a joke? Dude, they have Rivers and Gates. Everyone else is mediocre

And the Eagles have Vick and Celek. The Chargers are vastly superior to the Eagles at two crucial positions and just as strong as them on the other two.

[Al B. Sure!]

Tolbert did about as well as McCoy did last year and Mathews is young and healthy as opposed to Ronnie Brown.

What the **** are you talking about?

Mike Tolbert: 735 yards rushing; 25 catches for 216; 11 total TD's
LeSean McCoy: 1080 yards rushing; 78 catches for 592; 9 total TD's

Dude, what do you mean did about as well?

Yeah, and like Vick, hasn't played a full season.

What are you talking about? Vick played all 16 games in 2006 and played 15 games in 2002, 2004, and 2005. Malcom Floyd, meanwhile, played all 16 games in 2009.

[Ben Kenobi]

Dude, what do you mean did about as well?

On a per-game basis (which is what you love), yeah he did about as well. Scored more TDs too.

What are you talking about? Vick played all 16 games in 2006 and played 15 games in 2002, 2004, and 2005. Malcom Floyd, meanwhile, played all 16 games in 2009.

So they've both got extensive injury histories. I rest my case.

[Ben Kenobi]

Albert you really think that Vick is as good at football as Roy Halladay is at baseball?

[Donegeal]

Him runnning takes away from the team as a whole, and actually weakens the RBs and WRs.

Yeah, you put a man on Vick and then you don't have to worry about a WR and a RB, meaning that it's 11 on 9 with Vick out there.

Will someone PLEASE take the glue bottle away from Ben?

[rah]

You can't, it's stuck to his nose.

[Al B. Sure!]

I'm done. First he called the Chargers the most stacked offense in football... then he somehow claims Lesean McCoy and Mike Tolbert had comparable seasons last year even though McCoy had 721 more yards from scrimmage and 53 more catches than Tolbert... dude, 721 more yards! WHAT THE ****?! That's not even close!

You're retarded, Ben.

[-Jrabbit]

Watching early exhibition games... Ah, the simple pleasures of life!

[Ming]

Now let me get this straight Ben... You claim both the Eagles and the Chargers were on the outside and "looking in" last year, even though the Eagles actually were on the inside and in the playoffs while the Chargers didn't... And you also Claim that the Chargers are vastly superior on offense. If you actually look at the stats from last year, yeah, the Chargers were number one last year in yards per game at 395.6. But the Eagles were number 2 at 389.4. That's not a heck of a lot better. And at least the Eagles were CLUTCH enough to make the playoffs, while the Chargers choked and didn't. And as far as this year, the Eagles continue to add good players to their offense, while the Chargers have done very little to improve.

So basically, everything you have been saying is false.
The Eagles weren't on the outside...
The Chargers were the non clutch team last year as they gagged their way through the season while the Eagles were the clutch team that actually made it to the post season.
And the Chargers offense in 2010 was only marginally more productive than the Eagles... and the Eagles have made real improvements to their team on offense for this year, while the Chargers haven't, indicating that their offense won't be vastly superior to a team they barely managed to beat on offense in 2010.

So while I rarely agree with Alby... I do agree with him here.

YOU ARE A MORON BEN!

[Al B. Sure!]

Don't forget that McCoy had 53 more catches and 721 more yards from scrimmage than Tolbert yet Tolbert did about as well.

Per game basis? They both played 15 games last year!

[Ben Kenobi]

The Chargers were the non clutch team last year as they gagged their way through the season while the Eagles were the clutch team that actually made it to the post season.

The Chargers, despite injuries to their RB1, WR1, WR2, TE1, still finished number one in the entire NFL in yardage.

If you need further argument as to their depth on offense, I don't know what to say.

Are the Eagles a deep team? Yes. Are they a talented one? Yes. Are they as good on paper as the Chargers? No.

It remains to be seen whether their additions will help or hurt the team. Yes, I said hurt because their's only one ball to go around and I'm not convinced that this team will mesh all that well.

And the Chargers offense in 2010 was only marginally more productive than the Eagles... and the Eagles have made real improvements to their team on offense for this year, while the Chargers haven't, indicating that their offense won't be vastly superior to a team they barely managed to beat on offense in 2010.

Despite losing LT, they still had the best offense in football. That says quite a bit for their depth. Did they miss LT? Undoubtedly. Especially in the clutch. But I expect them to do well this year and better than the Eagles.

[Al B. Sure!]

Rex Grossman beat the Steelers. 19/26 207 yards and a TD in what? A half? Even against the second-string, that's bad business for Pittsburgh. How can you let Grossman do that to you?

[Ben Kenobi]

Is it sad that Grossman was once a starting QB for the Bears?

[SlowwHand]

I don't think the Steelers really care about preseason game number 1. They're probably more concerned with analyzing young players.

[-Jrabbit]

Rex Grossman was a starting QB in the Super Bowl.

[SlowwHand]

The very epitome of an example of team sport.

[Ming]

The Chargers, despite injuries to their RB1, WR1, WR2, TE1, still finished number one in the entire NFL in yardage.

And did NOT make the play offs... a bunch of losers

If you need further argument as to their depth on offense, I don't know what to say.

And what exactly did they do with that "depth"... they gagged and LOST.

Are the Eagles a deep team? Yes. Are they a talented one? Yes. Are they as good on paper as the Chargers? No.

The Eagles were almost as good last year on offense, and did make the play offs... you can cram the "paper"... the Chargers were losers while the Eagles made it to the play offs.
And on paper, the Eagles have improved their team for 2011... far more than the Chargers have.

It remains to be seen whether their additions will help or hurt the team. Yes, I said hurt because their's only one ball to go around and I'm not convinced that this team will mesh all that well.

Your opinions really aren't worth very much since you think the eagles were looking in last year, even though they made the playoffs.
The Chargers sucked last year, and failed to make the play offs in a weak division... The Eagles made the play offs.

What are you smoking?


Despite losing LT, they still had the best offense in football. That says quite a bit for their depth. Did they miss LT? Undoubtedly. Especially in the clutch. But I expect them to do well this year and better than the Eagles.[/QUOTE]

[Ben Kenobi]

And what exactly did they do with that "depth"... they gagged and LOST.

Uh, Ajiritutu was their starting WR.

The Eagles were almost as good last year on offense, and did make the play offs... you can cram the "paper"... the Chargers were losers while the Eagles made it to the play offs.

If it wasn't for a last second return TD they would have been out.

And on paper, the Eagles have improved their team for 2011... far more than the Chargers have.

Yeah but the Chargers were already ahead of them.

Your opinions really aren't worth very much

Doesn't matter what you think they are worth. It only matters if I'm right.

What are you smoking?

Dunno. Last I looked I was drinking pink lemonade.

Hey you want to ride the Vick train, be my guest.

[-Jrabbit]

When a team dominates statistically but can't win - especially in a weak division - it raises a flag.
Wonder when was the last time a team led the NFL in offense and failed to make the playoffs?

[Ben Kenobi]

When a team dominates statistically but can't win - especially in a weak division - it raises a flag.
Wonder when was the last time a team led the NFL in offense and failed to make the playoffs?

Special teams were the difference. They were also 3rd in Defense too.

[OzzyKP]

It seems like they had awful luck as well. Which indicates that if luck goes the other way, then maybe they'll have a much better season this year.