College Football 2013 Season

[Tuberski]

Even though, I'm one of the guys that "**** all over Mike McQueary", I agree with Drake on the NCAA sanctions, stay out of it.

ACK!

[-Jrabbit]

Can't agree. The head coach has been revealed as the self-serving douche we all suspected he was, and allowed a felon to repeatedly associate PSU football with child rape. It may not suit your definition of justice, especially for all the players and staff not a party to the Sandusky stuff, but JoePa should have thought of that when he insisted on keeping it "in the family" rather than properly separating himself and his program from the situation by putting the case in the hands of the proper authorities.

In essence, Paterno insisted on making PSU football the responsible party, and now a price must be paid.

[rah]

Sandusky is in prison for life, Joe is dead, and the image of the program and the school is down the tubes. Already quite a deep price.

[Lord Avalon]

This isn't a rules or recruiting type issue, it's a Criminal issue which the civil authorities have prosecuted. I'm not sure what jurisdiction the NCAA has.

Lack of institutional control, for one thing. See the NCAA letter to Penn State for details. Also, it's a recruiting issue in that Sandusky's crimes were covered up to protect the precious reputation of Paterno and Penn State football. If you're the parent of a football player, would you want to send your kid there if you knew Paterno had a pedophile on the staff for so many years?

Left out of the Freeh report: in Nov 2004 a portion the Board of Trustees proposed strengthening its power over Spanier and others, including Paterno, and Spanier and former chairman Cynthia Baldwin nixed it, so it never came to a full vote.

More accusations against Sandusky, dating to the 70s.

[rah]

If you're the parent of a football player, would you want to send your kid there if you knew Paterno had a pedophile on the staff for so many years?

That's already the case whether the NCAA piles on or not. And I think lack of institutional control is there as a catch all when other issues can't be found/used for some reason to avoid any punishment at all. It's not like no punishment was already delivered. Their program will have problems for years to come. Maybe not as much as some want but it's not like they're escaping punishement.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think Lord Avalon is right that one of the things the NCAA is saying is that the burial of this scandal helped recruting from 2001 until last year - if it would have come out, recruiting would have been less and PSU had more than a few good years and few good recruiting classes during that period (whether or not you buy that argument is a different story).

[Lord Avalon]

Yeah, they should have acted over a decade ago.

Brown University, at least, is removing Paterno's name from things:

Meanwhile, in Providence, R.I., Brown University removed Paterno's name from its head football coaching position and a student award and is reviewing whether to remove him from the Brown Athletic Hall of Fame.

The Ivy League university said it made the moves following a report that concluded the late coach was among those who concealed child-sex abuse by assistant coach Jerry Sandusky.

Paterno graduated from Brown in 1950.

The school said Paterno's name has been permanently removed from an award for outstanding male freshman athlete. The award had been presented since 1991, and was presented this spring without Paterno's name attached to it.

His status in Brown's Hall of Fame is being reviewed by the hall's board. He was inducted in 1977.

Brown says the removal of his name from the head coaching chair was made due to issues that predated the Penn State matter.

[rah]

I don't disagree that the cover-up benefited their recruiting.
But their reputation is tarnished now. I don't see how further punishment is going to make it more tarnished.

[-Jrabbit]

It's not like no punishment was already delivered. Their program will have problems for years to come. Maybe not as much as some want but it's not like they're escaping punishement.

So you're saying "the market has spoken" and calling it good?

The fact that PSU retained its recruiting edge, its reputation, and a reasonable degree of success for over a decade while several in power knew that on-site pedophilia was in fact happening is sufficient cause for direct punishment. How many parents were told of the honor and discipline of JoePa and PSU, how safe their kids would be on that campus, and took that scholarship over others on that basis? Dozens. Hundreds.

The fact that PSU is currently reeking of filth and paying a recruiting price is incidental (and deserved) fallout, but such de facto shunning based on the Sandusky case is not punishment per se.

Paterno was corrupt and the university was complicit.

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for all the student-athletes whose college careers will be stained by this. They should sue the university for fraud, especially if the NCAA opts for severe sanctions.

[rah]

The fact that PSU is currently reeking of filth and paying a recruiting price is incidental (and deserved) fallout, but such de facto shunning based on the Sandusky case is not punishment per se.

You seem to be saying that they're paying a price, which to me is also punishment. But if you feel the need to pile on, I won't begrudge you that. I think a death sentence isn't necessary because I also feel sorry for all the innocent student-athletes. Why should they have to go through the effort of years of lawsuits which whatever the outcome will probably not adequately compensate them.

Except for the die-hard, public opinion has already administered an almost death sentence. If this wasn't the case I'd be right next to you screaming for one.

When people are screaming to tear down statues and removing the name from buildings, you know it's bad. The feeding frenzy is big time.

[-Jrabbit]

If you break the law and are caught/exposed, the fact that your friends, neighbors, and employer may shun you does NOT mean the other authorities in your life should back off. "He's suffered enough" is hardly a justification.

There are hundreds - probably thousands - of college athletes who did nothing wrong, yet had their careers crushed by the malfeasance of the sports program they committed to. I see no reason why the current crop of PSU kids should escape. Sorry, but it's collateral damage. At least they get a free education.

On the flip side, you've got many thousands of athletes (and schools) who have broken NCAA rules and got away without punishment.

Admittedly, there's no way to mete out true justice here. But walking away from that responsibility because PSU's reputation is shot is just another form of enabling. Which, if you'll recall, is exactly what caused all this.

[rah]

To me it's like sueing the broke guy. Even if you win, it doesn't change anything so why go through the effort.
Actually this is worse because on top of nothing changing, you're taking innocent collateral damage. I guess I'm not that bloodthirsty. The rage you've worked yourself up to can't be healthy.

[-Jrabbit]

I have no rage.

But let's not forget that PSU raked in millions in bowl revenue, attendance dollars and alumni contributions while all this was happening and their sacred reputation remained intact.

[rah]

If it still was, I'd agree. It will take a long time to recover.
And how is current punishment going to change what already happened?

[-Jrabbit]

And how is current punishment going to change what already happened?

Never said it would. It never does.

But it would mediate some of the benefits PSU falsely reaped over the past decade or so, while sending a clear message to those still hiding their various malfeasances.

[H Tower]

I'm guessing that the civil suits are coming. PSU will lose plenty of money there. Giving the football program the death penalty though just seems to punish the wrong people.

[Tupac Shakur]

BUT, I wouldn't mind the program getting nailed to the wall.

Phrasing...

Sandusky is in prison for life, Joe is dead, and the image of the program and the school is down the tubes. Already quite a deep price.

QFT

[Tupac Shakur]

If you break the law and are caught/exposed, the fact that your friends, neighbors, and employer may shun you does NOT mean the other authorities in your life should back off.

The NCAA is not the authority here. The criminal justice system is, and it's sure as hell not "backing off" from the Sandusky affair.

Admittedly, there's no way to mete out true justice here.

Of course there is. The courts are working on it as we speak.

[-Jrabbit]

The NCAA is not the authority here. The criminal justice system is, and it's sure as hell not "backing off" from the Sandusky affair.

I acknowledge your POV as legit. But I believe there is ample evidence showing the university had no control over Paterno and thus, the program. Sandusky is just the firestorm that shone a harsh light on it. And it was obviously the case for many years. (I don't doubt there are similar situations on any number of insular, traditional campuses.) I think the NCAA is required to address this.

Obviously, civil courts and the criminal justice system have their roles as well.

[Tupac Shakur]

I acknowledge your POV as legit. But I believe there is ample evidence showing the university had no control over Paterno and thus, the program. Sandusky is just the firestorm that shone a harsh light on it.

Sandusky's crimes are so far the only misdeeds that are alleged to have been enabled by Penn State's supposed lack of institutional control. If we find out some PSU players stole some shoes or something, feel free to call in the NCAA. Until then, however, they should stay the **** out of it and let real authorities handle this.

[-Jrabbit]

let real authorities handle this.

Like I said, I see your point. But it's not either/or. The NCAA isn't keeping the legal authorities from doing their job.

[Tupac Shakur]

The point is that...

1. It's not the NCAA's job to deal with child rape.

2. It's stupid to punish people who had nothing to do with said child rape, which is all the NCAA can do.

3. NCAA involvement is completely unnecessary because the legal authorities are already on the case.

The NCAA simply has no good reason to involve itself unless a violation of NCAA rules and regulations is uncovered.

[SlowwHand]

1. The NCAA does have an obligation, and a personal interest, in adhering to laws. The same as federal and state authorities have the same "person of interest", but on separate charges all their own.
2. If the NCAA wants to discipline people that represent them, I've no problem with it.
3. Redundant, and addressed.

Your closing statement is erroneous.

[Donegeal]

When it comes to the NCAA, It is no longer about just PSU, it's football program and those involved. It's about preventitive measures (or it should be).

[rah]

Yeah, but consider, I find it hard to believe that if the NCAA doesn't squash Penn State, that the message that other schools will take away from this is that it's OK to protect pedophiles because the NCAA won't punish you.

[H Tower]

1. The NCAA does have an obligation, and a personal interest, in adhering to laws. The same as federal and state authorities have the same "person of interest", but on separate charges all their own.

so let the NCAA cooperate with Local, State and Federal Law Enforcement. If the NCAA uncovers a crime, they should hand the evidence off to authorities.

[-Jrabbit]

Yeah, but consider, I find it hard to believe that if the NCAA doesn't squash Penn State, that the message that other schools will take away from this is that it's OK to protect pedophiles because the NCAA won't punish you.

Well, duh. But the more critical takeaway is, "It's OK to let the iconic coach run roughshod over school admin and be the law unto himself. Just be sure to CYA." And it would be naive to think there aren't programs out there with that issue.

[rah]

Of course there are. Probably more than we can count. Do you actually believe that punishing Penn State any further is going to change that at all?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Phrasing...

[Donegeal]

Of course there are. Probably more than we can count. Do you actually believe that punishing Penn State any further is going to change that at all?

For the programs that are already monsters, most likely they are all to far gone for it to change anything (and when they fall, one by one, it will be huge each time), but it is possible. For the programs aspiring to monsterhood, yes, I think it wil make a difference.