A Game of Thrones - TV Show Discussion Thread

[Imran Siddiqui]

The stream of new characters isn't going to get any better...

Though Season 3 and 4 should be ok (the two halves of Storm of Swords). Season 5 (Feast for Crows is mostly about these new characters and areas) there are going to be a ton of new characters (though they may start introducing them in Season 4).

[Wezil]

Then they're probably going to lose me.

At the start of the series I would stay up to watch the episode when it aired. I'm now watching the following day and without the same enthusiasm.

[Guynemer]

They don't introduce that many new characters in the third/fourth/fifth book, and the ones who are introduced are at least relations of characters we know (Greyjoys) or will know after season 3 (Martells).

It is just that some of the more minor characters (Samwell, Brienne) take much bigger roles.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

No way on God's Green Earth that HODOR HODOR HODOR will be this season.

That will be the 9th or 10th episode of season three, almost certainly. Unless that is HODOR HODOR HODOR instead, in which case it'll probably be the 6th.

You know, I'm amazed how well that worked.

[Krill]

Spoiler:

Varys is debatable; one could also see him in worse shape, as he is in hiding, having lost his position in court. Bran is more of a lateral move; he may be a bit better off at the end of 5, but it is a small tick up after a steady decline, going through the horrors of the North.

As for Sansa, well, she is under the thumb of Littlefinger, possibly the most evil mother****er in the world, who also is barely restraining himself from getting into her skirts. She is also in hiding, and one of her hunters is now right next to her (unbeknownst to them both). Meanwhile, the Vale is on the brink of civil war. I don't think she is necessarily worse off in 5, but she is in every bit as much danger as she is in the show currently.

Spoiler:

Wait, who is the hunter next to Sansa?

[Guynemer]

Spoiler:

Ser Shadrich, the "Mad Mouse", whom Brienne briefly met on her journey, and who has recently agreed to enter Littlefinger's service.

[Krill]

Spoiler:

Ah yes, long time since I read that bit. Thanks for the reminder

[Flubber]

The plotting is fine, who doesn't love a good conspiracy?

The endless stream of new characters (this is what slows things down) is not.

well -- unfortunately for you, there are many more characters to come.... But they do kill characters off at an equally rapid pace.

I enjoyed the books but I do recall being peeved when a favorite character would not be written of for 100 pages-- (or even a whole book !!)

[Imran Siddiqui]

They don't introduce that many new characters in the third/fourth/fifth book, and the ones who are introduced are at least relations of characters we know (Greyjoys) or will know after season 3 (Martells).

And you don't think that's all that many new main characters? Two more huge Iron Islanders (at least) and a whole new family consisting of at least 5 new big time characters (though perhaps 3 of them can be less important)? That's a lot of new background and storyline.

[OzzyKP]

I think that's less then book/season 2, so if that's it for the next three books that's not bad at all.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Book/Season 2 introduced Stannis, Melissandre, Davos, Arya/Yaya, & Balon as main(ish) characters right?

There are a couple of Tullys (the awesomest ones) who were in Book 2, but won't really appear until Season 3 for the show.

I remember that there was a lot of complaining from Book readers that Book 4 introduced a whole bunch of new characters and locations and a lot of readers didn't really care for all the pages spent on them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Almost forgot (well, Guy and I forgot) to mention, all the people we meet in Essos, esp Slaver's Bay.

[Guynemer]

And you don't think that's all that many new main characters? Two more huge Iron Islanders (at least) and a whole new family consisting of at least 5 new big time characters (though perhaps 3 of them can be less important)? That's a lot of new background and storyline.

Not really, especially since we really don't spend that much time with those new characters as opposed to characters we already know. (The aforementioned Sam and Brienne, for instance; further discussion withheld due to risk of spoilers.)

[Guynemer]

Almost forgot (well, Guy and I forgot) to mention, all the people we meet in Essos, esp Slaver's Bay.

Almost all of them minor, none of them point of view, and all through Dany's eyes. Nothing really new there, as compared to her story up to this point.

Other than her story gets ****ING AWESOME (for a while, anyway).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Not really, especially since we really don't spend that much time with those new characters as opposed to characters we already know. (The aforementioned Sam and Brienne, for instance; further discussion withheld due to risk of spoilers.)

I think at this point I have to ask if you've read Feast for Crows. A good quarter to a third of the book is dedicated to those new characters.

And one of them manifests in POV chapters in Book 5, and a preview chapter for Book 6 shows another being of pretty big importance.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Almost all of them minor, none of them point of view, and all through Dany's eyes. Nothing really new there, as compared to her story up to this point.

Doesn't matter if they are POV or not. Robb Stark was never a POV character for instance. If they are important to the story (and some undoubtedly are), their inclusion will be expanded and it'll be another character for the non-book viewer to try to fit in to the world.

At this time I'll also remind you that Clash of Kings (Book 2) only introduced TWO new POV characters: Theon Greyjoy and Davos Seaworth.

[Guynemer]

I think at this point I have to ask if you've read Feast for Crows. A good quarter to a third of the book is dedicated to those new characters.

And one of them manifests in POV chapters in Book 5, and a preview chapter for Book 6 shows another being of pretty big importance.

The only significant characters I remember seeing in the preview chapter were

Spoiler:

Stannis, Asha, and Theon

, unless there is another one floating about.

And, in retrospect, I don't remember 25-33% of AFFC being about all new characters, but instead most of it being

Spoiler:

Cersei's descent into drunken madness, Jaime seeking redemption, Brienne seeing the horrors visited on the smallfolk, with smatterings of the Stark children and Samwell

with only a small portion being

Spoiler:

Iron Islands, and even most of that was centered on Asha; and an even smaller (but awesome) portion taking place in Dorne.

though I freely admit I could be completely wrong.

[Guynemer]

Doesn't matter if they are POV or not. Robb Stark was never a POV character for instance. If they are important to the story (and some undoubtedly are), their inclusion will be expanded and it'll be another character for the non-book viewer to try to fit in to the world.

Almost all of those characters are actually introduced in book 3, though, and most of them are minor/unimportant (at least so far). Once we get to book 5, that whole storyline is a mess, but not necessarily because of new characters (who are still almost entirely minor).

[Wezil]

This topic came up at Wezil's Weekly last night.

Things agreed upon:

1) Plot too slow (due to # of characters)
2) A dragon killing of a human is needed by the end of season #2 (we agreed a 3 on 1 attack by the dragons would be acceptable due to their still small size)
3) The pirate dude needs to "**** the blonde Queen"
4) Joffrey needs to go.

[OzzyKP]

Hah, I forgot about the pirate dude. He seemed like he was going to be a fun character but we haven't seen him since. Hopefully he makes another appearance soon.

[Main_Brain]

I think a Time-jump would be in Order. There were no acute events which needed immediate solving at the End of the Last Book were there?

[OzzyKP]

Book/Season 2 introduced Stannis, Melissandre, Davos, Arya/Yaya, & Balon as main(ish) characters right?

A whole bunch this season. And forgive me I never remember character names, but there was Stannis, the witch, the onion guy (I think you named them), the Greyjoy ruler, Theon's sister, Theon's first mate, that snow chick, the 50 foot woman, that crow ranger who just got captured looking for Jon Snow, Robb's love interest, Renly's wife, the king of Qarth, the warlock, the fat, obnoxious guy on the thirteen, the fat kid with Arya, her assassin friend. I'm starting to forget where season 2 started, but was Jon Aryn's creepy wife from this season? The creepy old guy north of the wall with a hundred wives was this season, what about the creepy old guy with a hundred wives and a bridge? Frey I think. Was Tyrian's love interest from this season? The wildling woman who hangs out with Bran and Hodo, which season was she from?

Hah, wow, I'm worse with names then I expected. I think I don't know anyone's name who wasn't in the first episode, hahah.

[Guynemer]

A whole bunch this season. And forgive me I never remember character names, but there was Stannis, the witch Melisandre, the onion guy (I think you named them) Davos Seaworth, the Greyjoy ruler Balon Greyjoy, Theon's sister Yara on the show, Asha in the book, Theon's first mate I think his name is supposed to be Dagmer Cleftjaw, but he is not the same as that character in the book, and is in fact serving the same purpose so far as a different, very important character only mentioned in passing so far on the show, so I shant continue with speculation that snow chick Ygritte, the 50 foot woman Brienne, that crow ranger who just got captured looking for Jon Snow Qhorin Halfhand, Robb's love interest Talisa on the show, someone else (maybe?) in the book, Renly's wife Margaery Tyrell, the king of Qarth Xaro Xhoan Daxos, the warlock Pyat Pree, the fat, obnoxious guy on the thirteen the Spice King, a totally made-up show character; in fact, the whole of the Qarth storyline is very different, the fat kid with Arya Hot Pie, seen very briefly at the end of season one, her assassin friend Jaqen H'Ghar. I'm starting to forget where season 2 started, but was Jon Aryn's creepy wife from this season? Lysa Arryn, season one. The creepy old guy north of the wall with a hundred wives was this season, Craster what about the creepy old guy with a hundred wives and a bridge? Frey I think. Yup, Walder Frey, season one, the one with a daughter Rob is betrothed to Was Tyrian's love interest from this season? Shae, season one The wildling woman who hangs out with Bran and Hodo, which season was she from? Osha, season one

Hah, wow, I'm worse with names then I expected. I think I don't know anyone's name who wasn't in the first episode, hahah.

There ya go, mon ami. It is a ****-ton to keep track of, I am honestly surprised how many non-book readers keep up as well as they do.

Oh yes, and the pirate dude is Sallador Saan, he is never an important character, but he is a very fun character in the books. I do hope we see more of him.

Also, the masked woman in Qarth is named Quaithe in the books, though she has not yet been given a name on the show, I think.

[OzzyKP]

Thanks

Why would they change Yara/Asha's name?

[Guynemer]

I read that the producers thought that viewers would be concerned since there was already a character named Osha. So, instead, they changed it to an anagram of a much more important character, Arya, which makes just ****-all sense, but there ya go.

[OzzyKP]

There ya go, mon ami. It is a ****-ton to keep track of, I am honestly surprised how many non-book readers keep up as well as they do.

Oh yes, and the pirate dude is Sallador Saan, he is never an important character, but he is a very fun character in the books. I do hope we see more of him.

Also, the masked woman in Qarth is named Quaithe in the books, though she has not yet been given a name on the show, I think.

Yea, I wasn't sure how important the masked woman is/was so I didn't name her.

I keep track of it all pretty well, I am just terrible with names, in RL as well.

[Guynemer]

Yea, I wasn't sure how important the masked woman is/was so I didn't name her.

I keep track of it all pretty well, I am just terrible with names, in RL as well.

In the book, it is she, Xaro, and Pyat Pree who bring Dany and her Dothraki to Qarth; she is a sort of witch, but (apparently) different from Melisandre and Pyat, and only pops up once or twice a book and promptly vanishes into thin air, appearing only to Dany.

[Guynemer]

There are actually, at least, six significant characters of various importance introduced in book two (and one in book one) who we have not seen at all thus far; probably three of them could be written out of show entirely without any major issues, and I suspect the others will be along in season three.

Oh ****, also almost forgot, another character introduced this season for you to know: Lord Roose Bolton, one of Robb's chief vassals, the slender middle-aged guy who has been advising him this season. At the risk of spoilers, his importance will grow in time. He was actually introduced in the first book, but didn't show up on TV until this season.

Spoiler:

Likely written out: Aeron Greyjoy (the Damphair), and the Reeds. Still to come: Brynden Tully (the Blackfish), Hoster Tully, Edmure Tully, and Ramsey Snow.

[OzzyKP]

Yea, there were a few of Robb's people who I didn't name. The bearded guy whose son was killed by Jaime, the guy whose bastard son was going to retake Winterfell, and some other guy (probably who you are referring to) who has been advising him (same guy as the one with the bastard son? I don't remember).

Last season there were various vassals too, like the big guy who kept challenging Robb. But none of the folks in the Stark camp ever seemed all that important. They basically just show up so Robb has someone to discuss military matters with for a brief moment before the hot medic chick comes by and to yell "King of the North!" at relevant moments.

[Guynemer]

Yea, there were a few of Robb's people who I didn't name. The bearded guy whose son was killed by Jaime, the guy whose bastard son was going to retake Winterfell, and some other guy (probably who you are referring to) who has been advising him (same guy as the one with the bastard son? I don't remember).

Yeah, same guy. The bearded guy is Arnolf Karstark, and all you really need to know about him, you know already.

Last season there were various vassals too, like the big guy who kept challenging Robb. But none of the folks in the Stark camp ever seemed all that important. They basically just show up so Robb has someone to discuss military matters with for a brief moment before the hot medic chick comes by and to yell "King of the North!" at relevant moments.

All very true, with the exception of Bolton, who is important to know. The big guy was Greatjon Umber, who is awesome and extremely minor.