FBI Cracks Down on Online Poker

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 19:07

Since the colonial period? I guess America is traditionally a Communist country.

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 19:07

I take it then that you support polygamy? The Bible definitely falls in favor of the practice.

Again, where? It's very clear in two places that marriage was intended to be one man and one woman. Christ himself states that the ideal is adam and eve.

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 19:09

Since when did Communists hate alcohol or tobacco?

Every Communist country has heavily regulated the distribution of both. If the state is paying for health care, then it makes sense to ban substances that are detrimental to people's health and to control them as much as possible. If the state owns your body, then management of your habits becomes a huge concern.

Is it the religious conservatives who are passing all the laws banning smoking everywhere?

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 19:11

Every Communist country has heavily regulated the distribution of both.

Can you name any commodities that Communist countries don't heavily regulate the distribution of?

DaShi · April 19, 2011, 19:13

Ben is like DD. You can safely assume he's wrong without even reading his posts.

loinburger · April 19, 2011, 19:13

Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi

Again, where?

There are many people in the Bible who have taken multiple wives, Solomon being the most egregious example

Genesis 4:19
Genesis 26:34
Exodus 21:10
Deuteronomy 21:15
Judges 8:30
1 Samuel 1:1-2
1 Kings 11:2-3
1 Chronicles 4:5
2 Chronicles 11:21
2 Chronicles 13:21
2 Chronicles 24:3

Where does Jesus condemn Solomon and all of the other polygamists?

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 19:27

Where does Jesus condemn Solomon and all of the other polygamists?

Matthew 19:4

Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 19:29

Can you name any commodities that Communist countries don't heavily regulate the distribution of?

None, and that's the point. Regulating these has nothing to do with religious folks, and everything to do with the communists who do the same thing everywhere they go.

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 19:32

Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi

None, and that's the point. Regulating these has nothing to do with religious folks, and everything to do with the communists who do the same thing everywhere they go.

Well, that just makes them a convenient scapegoat doesn't it? But Texans don't exactly elect Communists into office. It's religious control freaks who think alcohol and gambling are sinful who are to blame for the blue laws.

loinburger · April 19, 2011, 19:34

Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi

Matthew 19:4

So Jesus "I did not come to overturn the law" overturned the law that permitted polygamy? Because it looks like he's saying that monogamy is acceptable, not that monogamy is the requirement; in fact, that's the only way to read the passage without contradicting Mosaic law, the law that Jesus explicitly said that he was not overturning.

Monogamy just came about to simplify marriage contracts (it made inheritance much simpler), i.e. it was secular law imposing itself on traditional marriage. I'd think that you of all people would accept polygamy with arms outstretched.

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 19:38

They elect plenty of democrats, and there's very little to distinguish between the two. They both have pretty much the same goals.

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 19:40

Because it looks like he's saying that monogamy is acceptable, not that monogamy is the requirement; in fact, that's the only way to read the passage without contradicting Mosaic law, the law that Jesus explicitly said that he was not overturning.

Argue that and you have to argue that 'but I say love those who hate you, do good to those who oppress you," is also contrary to the mosaic law. And I doubt you'd argue that.

Jesus is arguing that God's law as it originally was taught that the union between a man and a woman in marriage could not be undone, but that God granted a concession. The ideal of marriage is Adam and Eve. That is the point that Christ is trying to hammer home.

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 19:46

Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi

They elect plenty of democrats, and there's very little to distinguish between the two. They both have pretty much the same goals.

Is this a joke? Are you seriously claiming that Texas has elected lots of people who are basically communists?

loinburger · April 19, 2011, 19:47

Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi

Argue that and you have to argue that 'but I say love those who hate you, do good to those who oppress you," is also contrary to the mosaic law. And I doubt you'd argue that.

Ummm... what? For one thing, you can't just say "this is contrary to Mosaic law" without actually explaining how it's contrary to Mosaic law - quote a passage or two at the very least. For another thing, if Jesus is saying that he is not doing away with Mosaic law, and then you say that Jesus's teachings are contrary to Mosaic law, then the response to this shouldn't be "and so I'm just going to ignore the parts of the Bible that confuse/displease me." Well, that can be your response, but what little credibility you have left goes down the shitter.

Berzerker · April 19, 2011, 19:48

Although these laws were clearly based on Christian beliefs, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that they do not violate the First Amendment's Establishment Clause.

the court's opinion: dont believe your lyin eyes

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 19:50

Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi

Argue that and you have to argue that 'but I say love those who hate you, do good to those who oppress you," is also contrary to the mosaic law. And I doubt you'd argue that.

Jesus is arguing that God's law as it originally was taught that the union between a man and a woman in marriage could not be undone, but that God granted a concession. The ideal of marriage is Adam and Eve. That is the point that Christ is trying to hammer home.

Jesus mentioned Adam and Eve? Where?

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 19:51

For one thing, you can't just say "this is contrary to Mosaic law" without actually explaining how it's contrary to Mosaic law.

I don't believe it is contrary to the mosaic law. I believe that the law of Christ is the higher law, and that the mosaic law was a beta.

I am arguing that if you believe that this statement IS contrary to the mosaic law, then so is this other statement. It's either both or neither.

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 19:53

Gribbler:

at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 19:57

Okay. So where did Jesus claim that Adam and Eve were ideal?

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 20:00

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh

For this reason, ie, because this is how Adam and Eve lived, so should we.

Berzerker · April 19, 2011, 20:02

I dont see adam and eve as an argument against multiple marriages, they were alone

and polygamy was clearly practiced in the OT without any obvious divine condemnation, I doubt Jesus was inventing one with the "ideal marriage" that led to our fall

The message wasn't about "who" can marry, but against easy divorce laws created and used by less than honorable men.

Didn't God tell Abram to take another wife?

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 20:05

Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi

For this reason, ie, because this is how Adam and Eve lived, so should we.

Adam and Eve disobeyed God... since we're apparently supposed to follow in their example, we should also disobey God

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 20:06

Adam and Eve disobeyed God... since we're apparently supposed to follow in their example, we should also disobey God

Nice try, but it's only in this way that we are to be like Adam and Eve.

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 20:08

"Become one flesh" sounds like a euphemism for sex. Besides, the people who wrote the Old Testament condoned polygamy, so why would Jesus quote from a book condoning polygamy in order to condemn polygamy?

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 20:08

Didn't God tell Abram to take another wife?

Yes, but God then came to earth in Jesus and said that the ideal was for one man and one woman. You're like a laser on this topic Berz!

Ben Kenobi · April 19, 2011, 20:09

Become one flesh" sounds like a euphemism for sex.

Not just physical, body and spirit together.

But yes, that's what he's talking about.

Docfeelgood · April 19, 2011, 20:10

How the fuk did you all get from poker to religion?

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 20:11

Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi

Yes, but God then came to earth in Jesus and said that the ideal was for one man and one woman. You're like a laser on this topic Berz!

After commanding someone to take another wife? God is awfully inconsistent.

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 20:11

Originally Posted by Docfeelgood

How the fuk did you all get from poker to religion?

Religious freaks who think gambling is sinful?

gribbler · April 19, 2011, 20:16

Hey, didn't Cain marry his sister or something? God must have engineered that situation considering he only bothered to make one man and one woman. So I guess God doesn't have a problem with incest? As long as they're the opposite sex, of course.