Civ community euphoric about Civ5?

[Zoetstofzoetje]

It's been exactly six months since the release of Civilization 5. Following this event, several patches, hotfixes, and DLC's have emerged to improve on and extend game functionality.

This month's issue of "Game Developer" narrates the development of Civ5 from the lead producer, Dennis Shirk. He explains which issues Shafer's team faced, and some of the solutions that they came up with to counter these. We will be covering varying aspects of this issue later, in the spotlight.

In this topic, we focus on the overall game experience. Our forum has seen plenty of debate on this subject, often leading to heated discussions. Firaxis' Dennis Shirk finds that fans had "high expectations", and he is happy to conclude that the Civ community "feel[s] [that] we've delivered another great Civ game." (p.25).

Do you agree with Shirk's assessment? Which gameplay aspects are urging you to go 'one more turn'? Which overall changes might improve on that experience?

[Dinner]

No. No we do not feel that they delivered "another great game". In fact, the game still routinely crashes on even high end computers so why don't they fix the damn game instead of crowing about what a wonderful job they've done?

[self biased]

what is this touch-hole smoking and where can i get some? People pay good money to view the universe through such well tinted glasses.

[Brael]

Absolutely disagree. I just recently bought a copy of Civ 4 when it was on sale on steam a couple of weeks ago as most of my old CD's no longer worked. It currently has 90 hours played on it. Civ 5 since release has 65 hours played since release. I just have no interest in playing the game because it lacks complexity and the AI is very flawed.

[Dinner]

Well said.

[reverendlinux]

From a game-play dynamics point of view, I think they did a great job of making a fresh, new Civilization entry. With a new release, I didn't want a game that was just a rehash of the last version with better graphics. I wanted one with new ideas and challenges. They did that well enough; what I have been able to play of the game has been great fun and kept going for that "one more turn" just like every other Civ game I have played since the first release.

What they didn't do was produce a game that is technically superior to the previous version. Hell, it isn't even technically equivalent to the previous one. The only way I can play it on my nearly new 3Ghz system with 8GB RAM and 512MB NVidia card without it crashing is to run it on the lowest detail level possible on the smallest map possible. Basically, I paid almost $50 for a game that I can play on 1/5 of. And that to me is unconscionable. If you (game makers) want to crow about how great your product is and expect to get people to pay for it, then you need to make sure it is dynamically AND technically rock solid. You have failed miserably. Forget the DLC and expansion crap. Fix the stability issues. Otherwise, this will be the last Civ game I, and many others, will buy.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

he is happy to conclude that the Civ community "feel[s] [that] we've delivered another great Civ game." (p.25).

he sounds like Denholm from IT Crowd

[Ming]

Great concepts...
Poor execution...
MP is worthless...
Still a boring game...

A lot of work still to do.

And I would like to know which "community" thinks it's a great game, because it certainly isn't any of the civ communities that I've seen.

[Beatie]

Absolutely disagree. I just recently bought a copy of Civ 4 when it was on sale on steam a couple of weeks ago as most of my old CD's no longer worked. It currently has 90 hours played on it. Civ 5 since release has 65 hours played since release. I just have no interest in playing the game because it lacks complexity and the AI is very flawed.

Agree 100%

[MxM]

What they didn't do was produce a game that is technically superior to the previous version. Hell, it isn't even technically equivalent to the previous one. The only way I can play it on my nearly new 3Ghz system with 8GB RAM and 512MB NVidia card without it crashing is to run it on the lowest detail level possible on the smallest map possible.

I think you are talking about game stability and being bug free, rather than superiority (usually new games do require better and faster computers, this is what make them "superior")
As for game stability and being bugless, it is unfair to compare any new game with its predecessor which was on the market multiple years, had several expansions and multiple patches. The new games are never more stable in that respect.

[Braindead]

Firaxis' Dennis Shirk finds that fans had "high expectations", and he is happy to conclude that the Civ community "feel[s] [that] we've delivered another great Civ game." (p.25).

I am happy to conclude that Mr. Shirk must have been smoking the finest weed. I see no reason to agree with his assessment. There is considerable dissent with his conclusion on at least two Civ fora.

[Nikolai]

From a game-play dynamics point of view, I think they did a great job of making a fresh, new Civilization entry. With a new release, I didn't want a game that was just a rehash of the last version with better graphics. I wanted one with new ideas and challenges. They did that well enough; what I have been able to play of the game has been great fun and kept going for that "one more turn" just like every other Civ game I have played since the first release.

What they didn't do was produce a game that is technically superior to the previous version. Hell, it isn't even technically equivalent to the previous one. The only way I can play it on my nearly new 3Ghz system with 8GB RAM and 512MB NVidia card without it crashing is to run it on the lowest detail level possible on the smallest map possible. Basically, I paid almost $50 for a game that I can play on 1/5 of. And that to me is unconscionable. If you (game makers) want to crow about how great your product is and expect to get people to pay for it, then you need to make sure it is dynamically AND technically rock solid. You have failed miserably. Forget the DLC and expansion crap. Fix the stability issues. Otherwise, this will be the last Civ game I, and many others, will buy.

My 3 year old 2.4 GHz system with 8 GB RAM and 512 MB ATi card can run the game flawlessly on standard size maps all the way through, no crashes. On high detail level.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

hey Niko, in the next article you and your group will be featured. Did you pick the name for your group, "Frankenstein"? Funny name

[jobe]

hey Niko, in the next article you and your group will be featured. Did you pick the name for your group, "Frankenstein"? Funny name

Frankenstein has been the name of the beta tester forum since at least Civ4. I think Soren Johnson opened and named it.

[Nikolai]

jobe speaks teh turth.

[a.kitman]

i think people keep forgetting how boring civ 4 vanilla was.

[Proteus_MST]

i think people keep forgetting how boring civ 4 vanilla was.

I for my part liked Civ IV from Vanilla on (despite the fact with that the computer I had at the time it came out was only able to play it on lowest graphics settings and with wonder movies deactivated).
After all, even in Vanilla, Civ IV already expanded the concept of Civ III by a great deal (for example by religion and roaming animals/barbarians) and fixed some of its flaws (for example resources disappearing after a while and a game concept that rewarded ICS)

As for the topic:
Sounds like Shirk took lessons from Baghdad Bob

[MikeH]

Civ IV vanilla wasn't perfect, but it was incredibly enjoyable.

[Nikolai]

So is Civ5. Not perfect, but very enjoyable. I've played it for some 500-600 hours the last year.

[MikeH]

I only just got it and I have played about 6 hours.

Not really motivated to go back to it, a few other games to play that are much more interesting.

[Handel]

What the hell is going on there? In the first couple of days after the Civ 5 was released I wrote on the forum the game is disappointment for me and was flamed by the fan boys explaining this is the greatest game ever made...
Now I see the wind is blowing in the opposite direction

[Dinner]

Fanboys will be fanboys and they will go after anyone who isn't a fanboy. Now, most of the Fanboys have run off to other forums which are filled mainly with fellow fanboys which leaves us free to make more objective assessments.

[MikeH]

I actually think it has a lot of potential. When I've got more time I'll get back into it.

[dannubis]

I actually like the more streamlined game mechanismsof CiV. I don't need the be able to pull 20.000 levers to optimize my strategy.

However, two things:

In some areas the game has become too blackbox (diplomacy) so these are experienced as useless
The combat AI...

[Nikolai]

Blackbox? As is closed to insight? You haven't tried the last patch then.

[LzPrst]

Shirk: We have always been at war with East-Asia (and other denials of facts and reality)

[Jaybe]

Fanboys will be fanboys and they will go after anyone who isn't a fanboy. Now, most of the Fanboys have run off to other forums which are filled mainly with fellow fanboys which leaves us free to make more objective assessments.

This is so much nonsense!
Fanboys can't find refuge in other forums, because they are ALL filled to capacity with complainers.
Real fanboys just accept the game as it is for now (with the fervent hope it improves!) and play the grapping game.

I spend MUCH less time on civ forums these days because it all seems destructive, not constructive.

[Dinner]

In other words, you can't refute the truth of the arguments against the game so you have become depressed and stopped trying to fight the tide of reality?

[LzPrst]

I decided to look for a multiplayer game today. there was 1.
1 single game, with 2 players.

with civ4 vanilla, despite its crappy multiplayer functionality, there would be at any time dozens if not hundreds of games available online. even with all the peer connection issues there would be dozens of joinable games I remember.

Civ 5 has half a year after launch, 1 joinable game. (and no others)
Can there be any other conclusion that this game is the worst flop since barbed-wire covered candy?

[Nikolai]

MPers are a very small part of the player base, so from that alone, no, the conclusion cannot be made. Can it be called a success? Too early to tell.