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Thread: Tips for a beginner? Yes, seriously...

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    Elok
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    Tips for a beginner? Yes, seriously...

    I had a crummy computer in 2005 and only just now got around to upgrading it. I just got Civ4 Complete as well (I had played 2 for a long time, disliked 3, have no interest in 5). The sheer array of new features is still sort of blowing me away here.

    I played a number of games that just went to crap real early because I'm so used to playing 2; it takes so much longer to build things in this game, I kept overestimating the impact of maintenance costs, and in one case I simply got stuck with a wretched starting position. I'm playing "settler" difficulty with mostly standard settings, except I turned off culture flipping and victory conditions other than conquest and domination. I never cared to win with spaceships.

    So now I've got a pretty decent game going as the Turks, of all people--Mehmet II, or however they spell his name in this game. Ironic, since I'm Orthodox Christian, but whatever. I liked the combination of expansionist and organized. More cities means more options. Doing all right for a guy who hardly knows what he's doing. I have a couple of wonders and I wiped out the Carthaginians, now I just need ships to get off the continent we were both on.

    Any general advice for what habits from 2 I need to unlearn for 4?

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    wodan11
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    Yeah... don't city spam. (REX). My rule of thumb is not to go over 6 cities before I have Currency and Code of Laws (Courthouses). Even after that, you have to keep an eye on city maintenance.

    Also, if you have cities on other continents, there's a colony maintenance cost that can be a killer. The idea is that if you have 2 or more on some other continent, you should consider making a vassal/colony out of them. At minimum, put your Forbidden Palace over there.

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    Krill
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    You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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    wodan11
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    Krill and Dave McW, twins separated at birth.

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    anhalibut
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    Check out Vel's Strategy threads.
    here's a link to one of them.
    there's also a file to download, but the download wasn't working for me.
    http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/1...ead-Volume-III


    Edit - Here's his first strategy thread
    http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/1...trategy-Thread
    Last edited by anhalibut; October 9, 2010 at 19:54.

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    Elok
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    Thanks! It's a lot to read...conquest seems to be a lot more difficult than in Civ2. Perhaps it's just that "cultural defense" thing, but technologically superior units don't smash through archers and such like they used to. It's kind of annoying how my Janissaries keep getting killed by axemen, actually. Is there an algorithms guide out there somewhere that will tell me, for example, just how many units I can actually support under X conditions?

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    anhalibut
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    I don't know about an algorithm guide, but one thing to make warfare go a little smoothly is to build lots of catapult/trebuchet/cannon.
    Treat them as disposable and use them to wear down the enemy troops and cities. If you have a steady supply of replacement bombardment units then you won't lose many melee/archer/cavalry.
    Also, conquering too many cities in one war can really tank your economy, so you may want to consider fighting shorter, limited wars.
    You can really set the AI back just by pillaging improvements.
    But it's probably better to read the guides than listen to me too much. I'm far from being an expert.
    Last edited by anhalibut; October 11, 2010 at 20:25.

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    Sirotnikov
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    I'm actually in the same position
    finishing up my first game of Civ IV
    learnt as I went. haven't seen culture flipping.
    the game is very enjoyable but war is tedious

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    Sirotnikov
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    Turns out I should have been running the BTS exe, not the regular one.

    BTS is different. Amazing, but much harder. Other Civs are very mean to me, and are better in most parameters. And that's on freaking Noble. Must train well.

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    wodan11
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    Yes, there's no reason to run the normal or the Warlords EXE (but you probably had both installed, along with the BtS). Run BtS always.

    Your 1st game on the normal (vanilla) Civ4 wasn't wasted. As you noted, it introduced you to the basic environment without the extra mechanics to overcomplicate things.

  11. #11
    Elok
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    Note that you can turn off culture flipping, under "custom game rules" or some such. If it weren't possible to turn that off, I don't think I'd have bought the game.

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    Sirotnikov
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    i'm considering another run at a vanilla game in harder difficulty to get used to building up fast and learn the tech tree.

    i played very little civ III

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    Hauptman
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    Just delve right into BTS. It's better in so many ways. No point toying with the older versions.

    All these strategy guides are helpful, but will be wasted if you read first then play. Play a few games, look over every screen, then once you have a grasp of it, then read up to hone your skills.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?...So with that said: if you can not read my post because of spelling, then who is really the stupid one?...

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    Sirotnikov
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    from the (limited) games I played, there's a different level of depth.
    BTS certainly feels much more complex..

    played vanilla civ 4 again, this time slightly higher level.
    it wasn't much of a challenge, but i decided to try the modern game warfare.
    against the weaker AIs it was cool, especially if i had a slight tech lead.

    against an advanced and powerful AI i got my ass kicked. my huge stacks got pounded, and I'm clearly doing something wrong with arty's and gunships.

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    Sirotnikov
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    Quote Originally Posted by anhalibut View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Check out Vel's Strategy threads.
    here's a link to one of them.
    there's also a file to download, but the download wasn't working for me.
    http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/1...ead-Volume-III
    FIXED

    here's the download
    vel_s_strategy_c4.doc

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    BvBPL
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    Thanks, Sirotnikov!

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    Elok
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    So, what's the proper use of specialists? I've read that there's generally a choice between "cottage economy," ie spamming towns everywhere for a crap-ton of cash, and "specialist economy," which I assume means prioritizing food so you can have people doing their priest/merchant/engineer thing. I've been favoring cottages so far just because cottages are freaking awesome, especially with the civics trio of doom. It honestly seems weird that they deliberately unbalanced the game that way, having three separate civics that favor one terrain development. Of course, emancipation seems to be the hardest to get of the three, and that's odd since it boosts growth and thus would be a lot more useful earlier...I haven't got there yet in my current game, and already have one city with a string of towns along a stretch of floodplain. I think that one city might be financing half my empire.

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    wodan11
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    There are several good ways to run a so-called Specialist Economy. Generally, you need some way to get and , and converting to them isn't the only way.

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    Elok
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    Damn Persian axemen somehow damage my tanks when I cut them down. They must get jammed in the treads or something.

  20. #20
    SpencerH
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    The "revolutions" and the "fall from heaven" mods are both brilliant.
    We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
    If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
    Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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    Sirotnikov
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    odd thing
    was stuck on a continent with alexander, while all the other civs are on another big continent. they have the same religion, while alexander and me are religion-less heathens.

    i got in a standstill with alexander after losing 2 cities to him, and now keep miscalculating how many trebuchets i need, so i don't get the area for myself.

    after astronomy i quickly got in contact with the other civs and in rather good relations with them, but for some reason neither of them is making ANY move towards our continent. nor is there any war, what so ever. they're all capping techs peacefully and have done so for the last millenia or two i guess. i mean, gosh its 1800. you should have SOME wars going on.

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    SpencerH
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    Not necessarily. If they are evenly balanced civs, especially if they have the same religion, and especially if you're playing a lower level, then the whole game can be one big love-fest (at least with BtS, I havent played vanilla civ 4 for so long that I dont remember). I wouldnt expect many naval invasions either, that aspect of the game has never worked for any civ version IMO.
    We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
    If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
    Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

  23. #23
    Elok
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    Naval invasion is a pain in the arse even for a human. At least for a human used to Civ 2, where a transport held 8 units and you didn't need all those sacrificial siege weapons. I can conquer now, but it's really not that fun when you can't use enemy roads (sans promotion). I'm actually contemplating a cultural/diplomatic victory because it takes so damned long to wipe out an empire. When they're on another continent...yuck!

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    Braindead
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirotnikov View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    odd thing
    was stuck on a continent with alexander, while all the other civs are on another big continent. they have the same religion, while alexander and me are religion-less heathens.

    i got in a standstill with alexander after losing 2 cities to him, and now keep miscalculating how many trebuchets i need, so i don't get the area for myself.

    after astronomy i quickly got in contact with the other civs and in rather good relations with them, but for some reason neither of them is making ANY move towards our continent. nor is there any war, what so ever. they're all capping techs peacefully and have done so for the last millenia or two i guess. i mean, gosh its 1800. you should have SOME wars going on.
    It also depends on who the civs are. Ghandi, Hatshepsut and Elizabeth are particularly to get along with peacefully. I have been attacked only once by one of them and that was because I was exerting very serious cultural pressure on a couple of Elizabeths cities. If I have one these as my neighbour and can be completely comfortable I won't be attacked if I get them up to friendly (not difficult getting this lot up to friendly, open borders + a trade will do).
    OTH Alexander and Montezuma are psychopaths. Catherine is a treacherous expletive deleted.

  25. #25
    mrp
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    some of the scenarios are simple and some are more hellish
    American rev newbie scenario
    Greek newbie

    the bts scenarios are more hellish
    any Rome scenario
    any ww2 scenario
    but none are so hellish and out matched like gal civ2 campaign
    also in civ 5 buildings cost money to maintain in civ4 quantity of cities make cottages
    save the forbidden palace for when you conquer the other continent
    don't play archipelago
    I usually play at mid level difficulty
    once you take a city airlift units makes engaging other continents way easier need flight and airport

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