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Rugby - The Game They Play In Heaven II

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  • Well, M'sieur Brunel has brought a little touch of Lièvremontitis to his first Italian selection. Luke McLean on the wing! Handy full back, useful if plodding fill-in 10, but he makes Matt Banahan look like Usain Bolt. Clerc will skin him alive. I can only imagine he's there for experience in a very young backline, though I'd swap him with Masi at full back. Masi can at least build up a head of steam. Brunel has looked to the future with talented young Benvenuti at 13, with a debutant on the other wing. Mirco Bergamasco wasn't considered because of a crocked shoulder. Hasn't played at all this season. Talented young Gori gets a start at 9. So Brunel has promoted youth, a good thing, but it will be a tough day at the office in Paris. Two coaches on debut. Looking forward to it immensely.
    " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
    "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

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    • Good to have you back Havak, hope your family business wasn't awful.

      Paddy Power gave me 250/1 on this accumulator - my pretty conservative predictions are in bold. We'll see, England are really difficult to gauge atm.

      RBS Six Nations

      France v Italy, 14:30
      Scotland v England, 17:00
      Ireland v Wales, 15:00
      France v Ireland
      Italy v England
      Wales v Scotland
      England v Wales
      Ireland v Italy
      Scotland v France
      Ireland v Scotland
      Wales v Italy
      France v England
      England v Ireland
      Italy v Scotland
      Wales v France

      Comment


      • Scotland A thrash England Saxons at Galashiels 35 - 0

        Fly-half Duncan Weir scores 20 points as Scotland A run in four tries in a 35-0 victory over England Saxons at Galashiels.

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        • I saw some of the Saxons game. Dire, dire Saxons defence. Just never in the game. Scotland A showed adventure that Scotland's top team could only ever dream about.

          I've differed from your tips already. I've gone for England over Scotland. Not sure why, apart from the fact that only one of the teams is equipped to score tries and that's the team I've tipped. I expect Scotland to have the better of the forward battle, much as they did last year, but they will probably waste the possession as they did last year.

          France by 19
          England and Ireland both by 13.

          The French margin might be, um, underestimated, in a case of wishful thinking on my part. I'd be surprised if both Priestland and Roberts last the game for Wales.
          " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
          "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

          Comment


          • Pfft.

            Scotland did outplay England in most aspects of the game. England created zero apart from Hodgson making a charge down. Yeah Havak, no Hodgson, no win. TBH, no Barritt, no win as that man was outstanding.

            Whilst Scotland should have won the game and if we hadn't opted on dangerous Dan, caught the ball a few times and had a TMO with balls, we'd have won. The ball stopped turning when Laidlaw put his hand on it, it was clear as day and yet we didn't have the try awarded and the ref didn't go back for the penalty. Grr!

            Fuming - but in large part because of the aggravation of the BBC pundits.

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            • Actually kOc anyone else at stand off would probably have scored that if they chased up because golden boy Parks kicks too low and takes too long on the ball. Hope his team mates are ripping into him in the dressing room. As for the TMO your emotion may be talking as your man never touched the ball. Never got close to touching it in fact. Had it been given we could have out in firmly in Finbar’s “Luger” category of TMO decisions. It was obvious live he hadn’t touched it and it was a very silly referral to the TMO. But then Clancy is a very risk averse referee.

              I can understand your anger however given how woeful Scotlands basic handling and finishing skills were. You should not lose games where you dominate every phase like that. You have serious problems and I would start to address them by getting rid of that turnip. He spent too much of the lead up making snide digs at his old foes in the RFU when he should perhaps have been coaching basic handling skills instead? Where do you play Italy? Because I think Scotland may be heading for a blank in the tournament if that is in Rome. Endeavour and effort are all very well - scoring points wins test matches however.

              That said ‘new’ England looks an awful lot like old England to me. I don't really expect them to win again unless they improve beyond all recognition from this showing. Absolutely no game plan in evidence and a failure to do the basics (such as guarding and retaining the pill through phases). I think even now it puts paid to Lancaster’s slim hopes of keeping the job.

              But compared to Scotland they were an extremely inexperienced outfit of course. How on earth did Scotland contrive defeat from the jaws of victory yet again? And did I detect a Bok accent on the Scottish ‘man-of-the-match’?
              It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt

              Comment


              • I don't know when I'll get my objectivity back - how can I when we had so many opportunities and threw them away? Personally I still think is was a try. That said, if it wasn't a try, it should have come back to the penalty.

                If Scotland are to look to the positives - we have some terrific players atm and young Laidlaw looked really comfortable at 10 and should replace Parks. Whilst Parks has occasionally shone in a Scotland shirt he isn't in great form atm and he has always been a liability. Parks doesn't deserve the derision some 'fans' have for him (he does what he does, we don't need to select him) but it is time for him to be replaced as Laidlaw and Weir look capable.

                Currently Scotland are getting edged in the big games. England twice now have sneaked it after being out-played in most aspects of the game, as did Argentina at the RWC. After watching Italy today, we shouldn't fear Italy as we've got what it takes to beat them. France barely got out of first gear and walked through pathetic Italian tackling. Nope, Italy will have the wooden spoon once again unless they beat England in Rome. I mean it, England have far more to worry about than Scotland, no-one should be deceived for one second. Scotland threw this game away against inferior opposition.

                Our man-of-the-match has a Scottish mother, but was born in Zimbabwe (not the healthiest place to be white) and did live in South Africa at one point. Given he also plays his rugby for Edinburgh, it really isn't an issue that he is playing for us. Botha (playing for England) only qualifies by residency and like Matt Stevens was born in S.Africa. FFS Havak, you've also got Barritt (another S.African), Corbisiero and Hartley. Scotland has very few professional players, England has loads and yet is still loaded with players with distinctly foreign roots. For their resources, Scotland are streets ahead of England atm.
                Last edited by kittenOFchaos; February 4, 2012, 16:09.

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                • As for Turnip - he isn't the issue beyond the fact he is English and seems to be suffering cruel punishment everytime we play. We need a high calibre attack coach, not Gregor Townsend who has had plenty of time to do something/anything to improve the situation.

                  Comment


                  • I was crossing my fingers for the TMO to give the try. Only because I'm running out of Dan Luger jokes. The try couldn't have been given on the available evidence. The front-on angle seemed to give the impression he had made contact but it could also have been an illusion. The other angles suggested it was Youngs' body that stopped the ball.

                    A pretty ordinary, error-riddled game anyway. I don't think you can blame Townsend this time, kOc. They created more opportunities than I've ever seen. Execution let them down. Not for the first time. And there would have been more opportunities had Turnip had the gonads to start Laidlaw. Parks is what he is, a kicker who often kicks very well, but yesterday only repeatedly hoofed it straight down Foden's throat. (The charge down, as Havak says, is always on the cards with Parks because (a) he dallies; and (b) he kicks the ball so low.) And you're being wound up about the MOTM's accent. Whatever his accent, he's a terrific prospect.

                    Foden swallowing Parks' dire kicks was about the only time England looked remotely dangerous. The mass inexperience showed. Who knows whether there was a game plan? Barritt's defence was outstanding but the Sarries midfield - in attack, on the few occasions it happened - were, well, very Sarries. Limited. Dowson had a forgettable game. The back row is even more unbalanced than it was under J****. You've got three 6/6.5s. It needs a Morgan, or dare I say it, a TTE. I'll reserve judgement for a few more games but, yesterday anyway, at least there seemed to be a big step up in the area of discipline.

                    I wouldn't write off Italy too quickly. France did what they had to do - how scary a prospect is Fofana? - but Italy fought it out. Brunel is clearly wanting them to be more expansive and they made more inroads than usual. It's a very young and inexperienced backline behind a still powerful scrum - they had the French scrum on toast several times even if they lost a couple against the head - so it's a steep learning curve. I'm not writing them off.
                    Last edited by finbar; February 5, 2012, 06:15. Reason: In the interests of fairness. Yes, me. Amazing. Innit.
                    " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                    "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                    Comment


                    • I'd like to point out I hated the referring of Scotland/England. Not that it would have changed much, but allowing players to lie on the ball after a tackle doesn't help the game much. The Scots should also sometimes buy some brains, like not playing a lineout quickly in their own side of the field when they could have played it inside the opponents' 22.
                      Clash of Civilization team member
                      (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                      web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

                      Comment


                      • Cripes, Wales showed some guts. Some dire Ireland defence against those hulking Welsh backs cost them, plus a totally schizophrenic performance at the breakdown. The yellow should have been a red, and Ferris shouldn't have been carded at all. Ah well, there went my perfect score for the weekend.,
                        " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                        "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                        Comment


                        • The Ferris yellow-carding was a really poor call by Wayne Barnes - it wasn't even a penalty, the Irish have every right to feel aggrieved.

                          That said, Wales deserved the win as yet another TMO was gutless and failed to award a perfectly decent try.

                          Bradley Davis will be citied for his wrestling move - it was pretty ugly and could have caused serious harm.

                          All in all the game lived up to expectations and was extremely entertaining, just a shame that it was decided by a dodgy penalty.
                          Last edited by kittenOFchaos; February 5, 2012, 15:04.

                          Comment


                          • Yes, a shame, but Ireland can't complain. Apart from the shoddy defence against those monster Welsh backs, they did themselves no favours tactically. A simplistic analysis I know, but they seemed to play a Munster-ish game which just doesn't suit - and arguably wastes - the Leinster contingent who make up the bulk of the attack. The Kidney influence, no doubt. Why isn't Sexton as effective for Ireland as he is for Leinster? Because, for Leinster, he plays flat and runs more than he kicks. For Ireland, he plays as deep as ROG does for Munster and rarely runs. Ireland looked dangerous every time they went wide but it just didn't happen often enough. I expect the pressure will be on Kidney after they lose in Paris next week.

                            Davies' spear - and it was a spear tackle - was worse than Warburton's at the WC. Warburton's was careless in the hurly burly of play. Davies' was off the ball and utterly unnecessary. A definite red, and Dave Pearson squibbed it. Davies will get a long holiday and deservedly so.

                            Oh, and the decision - presumably POC's - to attempt a 55m penalty, with the near certainty of handing possession back to the Welsh, instead of kicking for touch was insanity. They needed to keep possession. Dolts.
                            Last edited by finbar; February 6, 2012, 03:48. Reason: Monday morning-itis.
                            " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                            "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

                            Comment


                            • I would be the same in your shoes kOc. When the clearly better side has contrived to lose a game that it simply should not have been possible to lose it would have me perplexed.

                              But believe me England have less to worry about than Scotland. England can only improve (it is not possible to be any worse) but that might well be Scotlands high water mark. Don't under estimate the effect of winning or losing the opening tie (the historical stats back this up).

                              Starved for time but I did just want to say that yes it should still have been a penalty after the try that never was - that was a strange decision by the referee. Strange referee.

                              Having watched the incident again the ball kept spinning (direction was directly away from the dead ball line and the direction did not alter after the "touch") until Youngs jersey landed on it - based on the question "try yes or no" it simply couldn't be awarded. You don't need control per se but you must have demonstrable downward pressure.

                              I did not read back through the thread as you may have noticed. Not a life or death family situation (except to the teenager involved). Just someone realising they have made the wrong choice of higher education course and sorting that out.

                              Wales are rather handily placed now - their visit to Twickenham becomes key.

                              And I see Scotland are indeed in Rome this year.
                              Last edited by Havak; February 6, 2012, 05:31.
                              It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt

                              Comment


                              • Thankfully I sorted out my higher education choices in time. Ten minutes into a combined Law/Commerce degree I decided to be a writer instead.

                                That aside, Irishman Clancy is a strange referee indeed. He simply forgot about the penalty advantage in the time it took for the VR to decide on the try. Barnes, yesterday, was equally bewildering at times.
                                " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
                                "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.

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