Peaceful/tech viable playstyle?

[Ralen-Sharr]

I'm new to Civ, they had a sale to get Civ 4 and some expansions for 10$ on Steam so I got it along with a couple of friends.

I've played empire builders before, and I normally play a pretty similar way on them. I make nice with most everyone, and go nuts on the tech tree giving me a really good tech edge on the guys that spent all of their time and resources fighting.

Now, I get into civ 4, playing with a friend who's a total warmonger, and is kinda "meh" on the tech side. I push hard to get through the tech tree as fast as possible and I keep the little % on the top right corner of the screen as high as I can without breaking myself.

None of the races or leaders seem to offer a significant bonus to tech, so I was using Peter/Russia (and now I don't really remember why)

I normally build research buildings first and any time I can spare I put my cities at building research instead of units. Despite this my friend who spends the majority of his resources fighting is able to keep right on my tail technologically.

Every other empire builder I've played allowed me to gear myself for tech and outstrip other civs, giving me a later-game advantage and I can't seem to do it in civ 4.

So any help would be appreciated telling me how I might do this more successfully. Remember please that I am new (had it for 4 days) to the whole game series so "common knowledge/sense" may not be known to me. I don't like being at constant war, so if I can be left alone to build and gain a massive tech edge I'd have a lot more fun. I usually manipulate or bribe the other civs to fight each other so I get left alone.

BTW we are playing the beyond the sword expansion.

[wodan11]

Keys to success in CIV4:
1. Get an early military tech, usually Bronze Working because it also allows you to chop and whip.
2. Get worker techs.
3. Decide if you're building cottages or scientist specialists for your research, and do so.
4. Get Currency and Code of Laws (for Courthouses). Don't get more than 5 cities (either through Settlers or conquering) before you do this.

Are you doing this already? Are you doing anything other than this (e.g., going for religious techs)?

If so, and if not, then we can talk about the mid- or late-game.

[Ralen-Sharr]

1- what is chop and whip?
2- got it
3- specialists? do you mean the little icons that allow you to make scientists and priests and engineers?
4- got it

[wodan11]

1- what is chop and whip?

If you send a worker to a forest tile near one of your cities, after you have the Bronze Working technology, you can "chop the forest down" (it will show up as one of your available worker commands). When you do this, it gives you a one time bonus of hammers into your city.

Since it takes so many hammers and food to create settlers, and speed -- how early in the game you can get your first 5 cities established and growing -- is hugely important to how successful you are later in the game, chopping (especially chopping settlers) is a very powerful strategy.

Also, it can be needful to chop to get Axemen which will allow you to "rush" a neighbor and conquer his capital. Capitals are always great cities with extra resources... the game mapscript sets it up that way.

3- specialists? do you mean the little icons that allow you to make scientists and priests and engineers?

Yes. When you build a Library in a city (for example), it allows you to turn up to 2 citizens into scientists. Each scientist gives you 3 per turn (6 once you get the Representation civic). Also, when you have the Caste System civic (which you can use after you get the Philosophy technology), you can have unlimited number of scientists (limited only by city size and food).

Compare this to making a cottage, which will give you per turn (starting at 1 and growing throughout the game). Each turn, all your income is changed into a % of and , depending on the "slider" at the upper left of the game screen.

[Thoth]

1- what is chop and whip?
2- got it
3- specialists? do you mean the little icons that allow you to make scientists and priests and engineers?
4- got it

Chopping refers to cutting down forests. When a forest is cut down, it is converted into 20h (normal speed) that is applied to the nearest city's current build. The bonus rises to 30h once you have acquired the Mathematics technology.

Whiping: Once you have acquired the Bronze Working technology, you can adopt the Slavery civic. This allows you to sacrifice population to generate hammers at a rate of 30h per pop point sacrificed. Each time you whip, you gain an extra unhappy in the city for 10 turns (this is independent of the number of pop points whipped away). This allows you to convert food into hammers in order to speed up production. In general (like with everything else in Civ4 there are exceptions) you want to whip 2 or more pop points at a time and you want to have a granary in place to speed up regrowth.

Specialists: Each happy citizen in your cities can either work a tile in the city's "fat cross" or you can take the citizen off the land as a specialist.

Types of specialists:

Citizen: produces 1h

Engineer: Produce 2h and 3 Engineer Great People Points (GPP). Forges provide one Engineer slot, Factories provide 2, Industrial Parks provide 2 slots plus one bonus engineer and the Iron Works National Wonder provides an additional 3 slots.

Spy: Produces 4 espionage points, 1 beaker and 3 Spy GPP. Courthouses provide 1 slot, Jails, Security Bureaus and Intelligence Agencies each provide 2 slots.

Merchants: produce 3 coins and 3 Merchant GPP. Markets and Grocers each provide 2 slots and the Wall Street national wonder provides 3 slots. The Caste civic provides unlimited Merchant slots.

Scientists: Produce 3 beakers and 3 Scientist GPP. Libraries provide 2 slots, Observatories and Laboratories provide 1 slot and the Oxford University national wonder provides an additional 3 slots. The Caste civic provides unlimited Scientist slots.

Artists: Produce 4 culture, 1 beaker and 3 Artist GPP. Theatres and Broadcast towers each provide 2 slots, the Globe Theatre provides 3 slots and the Caste civic provides unlimited Artist slots.

Priests: Produce 1h, 1 coin and 3 Priest GPP. Each temple (you can build 1 temple for each religion present in the city) provides 1 priest slot, Cathedrals provide 2 slots and Shrines provide 3 slots.

Specialist yields can be boosted by the Representation Civic (adds 3 beakers for each specialist), the Sistine Chapel (adds 2 culture per specialist) and the Ankor Wat wonder (adds 1 h for each priest specialist. Note that this only applies to regular priests and not settled Great Priests)


Once you have accumulated enough GPP in a city, the city will spawn a Great Person.

Great Spies: Can be settled in a city to produce 12 espionage points and 4 beakers or can construct a Scotland yard (+100% to espionage in the city) or they can be sent into a rival's civ and expended for a large one-time bonus to your espionage points against that civ.

Great Engineers: Can be settled in a city to produce 3h and 3 beakers or they can be sacrificed in a city to hurry the production of a building or Wonder. They can also be sacrificed to generate a one time beaker boost towards certain techs (AKA "Lightbulbing")

Great Merchants: Can be settled in a city to produce 1 food and 6 coins or can be sent to a foreign city and conduct a "trade mission" for a large one-time cash payout. They can also lightbulb certain techs.

Great Scientists: Can be settled in a city for 1 h and 6 beakers or can construct an Academy which adds +50% to the city's beaker production. Can also lightbulb techs.

Great Artists: Can be settled in a city for 3 coins and 12 culture per tun or they can create a "Great Work" which generates a massive boost to the city's culture and if the city is in revolt the Great Work will end the revolt. Can also lightbulb techs.

Great Priests: Can be settled in a city for 2 h and 5 coins per turn. They can also be used to build a Religious Shrine in a Holy City. Shrines provide 1 coin per turn for each city worldwide that has that religion present. Shrines also boost the chance of their religion spreading naturally. Great Priest can also lightbulb.

Great People can also be sacrificed to start a Golden Age for your civ. The first Golden Age costs 1 Great Person, the second requires 2 Great People of different types, the third requires 3 ect. Note that Golden Ages started by random events or The Taj Mahal do not increase the cost of subsequent Golden Ages.
Golden Ages last 8 turns at Normal Speed, 10 at Epic and 16 at Marathon. The Museum of Mausellos Great wonder increases the duration a Golden Age by 50% (note that you need to control the wonder at the start of your Golden Age in order to reap the benefit.)

Golden Ages increase tiles yields by 1h (if the tile is already producing at least one h) and 1 commerce (if the tile is already producing at least 1 commerce). They also allow anarchy free civics changes and provide a +100% bonus to GPP production.

[Theben]

One problem noone has mentioned is that he's playing mutliplayer, and that his desire to avoid building a military and a lot of units is doomed to failure unless he gets an agreement from his friends not to fight and he trusts them to honor that agreement. Even then once it becomes apparent that one person or the other is going to win all bets are off.

[Ralen-Sharr]

We not only agree to not kill one another, but we protect each other. My more war-mongery friend knows that he doesn't do well later in the game due to lack of tech, and I fill that role well.

I tried some of this out, and it worked great. I was able to bring battleships, carriers, jet fighters, tanks, and SEALs into a war against knights, catapults, praetorians and a few scattered low end gunpowder units.

Now I'd like to know why a praetorian can kill my tank....

[Blaupanzer]

The universal question, once worded as, "how can a 4-pt spearman kill my 40-point battleship?" The answer is to think of the odds given as real. If the tank has 99.9% odds to win, then one in one thousand times it will lose. Fight enough battles, it all balances out.

[Brael]

We not only agree to not kill one another, but we protect each other. My more war-mongery friend knows that he doesn't do well later in the game due to lack of tech, and I fill that role well.

I tried some of this out, and it worked great. I was able to bring battleships, carriers, jet fighters, tanks, and SEALs into a war against knights, catapults, praetorians and a few scattered low end gunpowder units.

Now I'd like to know why a praetorian can kill my tank....

Because you were unlucky or the tank was already damaged. Whenever possible fight with a unit at full strength. A praetorian has 8 strength, if it's fortified with lets say combat 2 it's 11.6 strength. A tank has 28, 28 vs 11.6, the 28 is going to win virtually every time, but it's going to take some damage. If it fights probably 2 battles it will be down to the 14 range, and 14 vs 11.6, the praetorian actually has decent odds to survive.

[Ralen-Sharr]

I kinda figured there was an element of "dumb luck" to it, but the thought behind it was similar to the 4 pt spearman vs 40 pt battleship.

seriously... how is a group of guys with spears even going to damage a battleship?
kinda the same thought. How are a bunch of ancient roman soldiers going to do harm to a tank?

I know that balance plays a part in this, but when I played Gal Civ and MoO2&3, if your defenses were strong enough they cannot harm you. I agree with this, since throwing rocks or spears or arrows at a tank, or for that matter swords will do you no good against an airborne gunship.

I know -again- balance.... and I know this isn't any of those other games, but it still seems weird.

[ybrevo]

This is not an answer to the gameplay itself, but in the real world a tank is a real strong unit but it is also vulnerable. In WW 2 a single soldier with a hand grenade could take out a tank in a given situation, like if the engine had stalled. I guess even an axeman could just chop away inside and make "mince in a can" if it was badly hurt.

On the original question in this thread: I am also a player with too little experience when it comes to BTS (since I play on a Mac I had to wait a long time for it), but after a few games I have found that Perikles (of the Greeks) has given me a good balance between strong military defense against warmongers (a good early UU), a perfect strategy with specialists and with an early religion and the extra culture, my games are normally peaceful for a long time unless I have some totally mad neighbors around me.

Try it out - it may fit the way you want to play it.

ybrevo

[Theben]

I kinda figured there was an element of "dumb luck" to it, but the thought behind it was similar to the 4 pt spearman vs 40 pt battleship.

seriously... how is a group of guys with spears even going to damage a battleship?
kinda the same thought. How are a bunch of ancient roman soldiers going to do harm to a tank?

Chances are, that if there are tanks in the world, there's another civ out there with the tech to injure tanks. And they might decide that supplying the Romans with some weapons able to hurt you is a good idea. So I just assume that the 0.01% odds I just dealt with were a combination of advanced weapons supplied to an obsolete unit by a 3rd party (but not enough to alter it's strength), tactical cleverness on the part of the enemy commander, sheer ineptitude from my commander, and dumb luck.