I must admit that I like the idea of hexes, as the problem of diagonals will disappear. It also just looks cool.
That said, it seems that the keyboard movement interface will be more counterintuitive as a result. At the moment we can use arrow keys and the keypad to move units in 4 or 8 directions respectively. This will become less intuitive to do if there are 6 directions and I do often prefer to use the keyboard to clicking with the mouse.
Rome rules
Yeah... if you are a keyboard buff, it will be just a little weird at first, but I'm sure you will get use to it quickly.
Since I never use the key board, it won't make a bit of difference using the mouse
Since I'm an old board gamer, hexes will be wonderful!
Keep on Civin'
RIP Baron O
I hope so!Originally Posted by Ming
Anyway, hexes will make maps more 'organic', so that's a good thing.
Rome rules
They could use letters... for example, r-t-g-v-c-d forms a hexagon. g makes the unit go east, t makes it go northeast, d makes it go west, etc. And then f can mean fortify.
I like this idea - it could work.They could use letters... for example, r-t-g-v-c-d forms a hexagon. g makes the unit go east, t makes it go northeast, d makes it go west, etc. And then f can mean fortify.
Rome rules
What is wrong with the numpad option 7 - up-left; 8 - up; 9 - up-right; 1 - down-left; 2 - down; 3 - downright?
Seems perfectly easy to understand.
Capitalisation - The difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse
Grammar - The difference between knowing your $hit, and knowing you're $hit.
Spelling - The difference between being literate, and being Dinner.
That's great if you have a numeric keypad. Some lap tops don't
Keep on Civin'
RIP Baron O
They have Fn+NumLock instead.That's great if you have a numeric keypad. Some lap tops don't
exactly... hit the numlock key first.... or switch to that new invention called the mouse lol
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Anyone who's complaining about a laptop not having a numeric keypad doesn't really have a leg to stand on considering that would affect however they've been playing Civ as well.
I'm fine with 789-123. Might be a little weird, but it's intuitive enough. Really all that's taken from us is due east and due west.
I'm curious if the fact that units will get to move two or more times will lead to people being more or less likely to use the keyboard for movement. Moving cavalry and across roads is more of a pain on a keyboard when you can one-click it on a mouse, but OTOH the no stacking rules and such are going to more greatly facilitate wanting to route the unit yourself, so you'll be two-clicking anyway. I'd rather two-key than two-click.
I have concerns about the current one-pathing done in Civ 4. Often, you hold the mouse and see where the unit is going to go to get there, and then when you let go the unit takes a totally different route.
So, I agree it's a concern, but its a concern that doesn't work now.
In II i used the number pad, but in IV I use the mouse so I won't have an issue.
Yeah, I hate the unit taking a different route, since I lose workers that way.
The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
Baron O RIP.
Just because past versions are poorly suited for laptop play does not mean future versions need to be. It's called innovation.Anyone who's complaining about a laptop not having a numeric keypad doesn't really have a leg to stand on considering that would affect however they've been playing Civ as well.
Based on the screenshots it appears that the map lets you move due east and due west but not due north and due south. 789-123 would not be intuitive at all. 741-963 is more intuitive but even that is inferior to r-t-g-v-c-d.
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Speaking of Erith:
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I have a question, and this is probably the thread closest to it.
If units can only occupy one tile, will transport ships only be able to hold one unit? If not, how will loading and unloading work?
Will units on a tile have a given size (barbarian: 1, tank: 20)? Will transport ships have a maximum unit size that they can transport?
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Fool me twice, shame on me
jbavon, those questions can't really be answered until the game comes out, and seem to me to be a bit too detailed/esoteric to speculate upon. By that I mean... those are ancillary and incidental to the major change.
We don't know how stacking will work for ships - maybe it will be allowed or maybe not. That said, it has been stated that:
1) All ships will be able to transport units.
2) Units will be able to 'covert' themselves into transport ships upon reaching the sea or another body of water, so you won't need to build transports.
I mostly like change 1. There are some disadvantages to it, but I think there is more good to it than the bad. I am less sure about change 2, however, as it seems to make a seaborne invasion a bit too easy. Bodies of water SHOULD act as obstacles, in my opinion and SHOULD need the building of a proper invasion fleet to overcome. It could still work well if some sort of supply-line system were implemented, but by itself it appears like too much of a simplification to me.
Rome rules
If you balance it with some sort of increased cost of turning a unit into a ship, then it makes it possible to do a sea invasion without spending most of the game setting up the attack, researching the techs and all, without totally unbalancing the sea as a defense. However at the moment it takes the first half of the game to set up a sea attack and the next half executing it. At least for me, but then again I'm a noob.
If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
:(){ :|:& };:
I have not heard the "all ships will be able to transport units".
The latest I have heard (civfanatics has it credited to pcpowerplay) is that after researching the appropriate technology, units will be able to convert into transports. We do not know if this will take any time/movement and we do not know if the will be considered military or civilian (which is relevant because it has been stated that each tile will be limited to one of each). We also do not know anything about how they convert back.
I suspect (and this is pure speculation) that embarking will require a unit's whole turn; and that a unit will be unable to move the turn it lands. The amphibious promotion (if it still exists) might change any and/or all of that.
With the 1UPT limit, water will still represent a significant obstacle. Your invasion force will probably only be able to land a few units each turn - and you will have to be able to move off the beach in order to land any more. We will also have to see what penalties there are for amphibious assaults. . .
The hexs kind of remind me of playing battletech in middle school.
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The hexes will remind me of playing real war games back in the 70's
And you are right thyrwyn... no matter how they do it, water will still represent a significant obstacle.
The absolute number of units will definitly be different, changing the whole style of how it's done now with the massive landing fleets.
Keep on Civin'
RIP Baron O
I like gribbler's idea - a hex of keys on the regular keyboard makes sense. I've missed having a NumPad for Civ since getting a laptop, and the "NumPad" overlayed on a regular keyboard just doesn't cut it, with the layout not being rectangular but more like a rhombus. This would work just as well on a laptop as a desktop, and vice versa.
Ideally, though, this would be configurable. Such keyboard configurability is common now in shooters, Microsoft Office, and the Total War series. There's no good reason shortcuts shouldn't be configurable in Civ. A good set of defaults is great, of course, but user-configurable settings provides a way around nearly all awkward arrangements that may come up on individual keyboards.
Last, and only, hex game I can remember playing is this one:
Capitalisation - The difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse
Grammar - The difference between knowing your $hit, and knowing you're $hit.
Spelling - The difference between being literate, and being Dinner.
I am all about the hexes. Like Ming and some others, I played the old school wargames from Avalon Hill, Spi, et al with my dad growing up in the 70s and 80s. First game I played was Afrika Korps. Awesome!
Haven't been here for ages....
Ah, History Line 1914-18... I loved that game!
That game made me appreciate hexagonal tiles, so I'm thrilled about civ having this too!
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Hexes make eminent sense. Used to them from the old AH/SPI games, especially Waterloo. Mouse is the way to move units, provided they can move through each other. Any news on that front?
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"I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author
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