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  • Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
    Tigers-Sox on ESPN tonight, I believe.



    Verlander has already matched last season's output in IP. He has slightly increased Ks (224-219), but markedly fewer BBs (49-71) and hits (154-190), while dropping both his WHIP (0.91!-1.16) and ERA (2.34-3.37), all while actually giving up more HRs (20-14) in front of a mediocre defensive baseball team.

    He currently leads the AL in wins, strikeouts, ERA, WHIP, IP, and hitters ****ting themselves.

    That is not luck. He is having a monster season based on his skills. He may never pitch this well again, but it ain't luck.
    Whatever makes you happy. I never said he wasn't good, just not a demigod like his Wins and ERA suggest.

    *Cy Young worthy
    Last edited by EPW; September 4, 2011, 18:08.
    "

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    • Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
      Tigers-Sox on ESPN tonight, I believe.
      You watching the slaughter?
      Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

      When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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      • Oh my yes.

        Already up 14-0 before they even manage to hit a HR.
        "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
        "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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        • Since the announcers were talking earlier about Verlander for MVP and again throwing in the crappy line about how batters play every game and it is their game to lose. Because of this pitchers should only have a chance if there aren't any good hitters out there. I totally don't buy that argument. Pitchers may only play every 5th game, but pitchers have far more of an impact in each game they play than anyone else.

          JV has pitched in 223 innings so far, so he's faced 669 batters. Granderson has had 505 at bats, Elsbury & Gonzalez 550, and Bautista 440. So while those last four may walk out on the field more days, they don't necessarily play more. And sure, the position players play defense too, but how much does fielding play into an MVP decision? Not much. Even so, since JV faced over 100 more batters than the others faced pitchers, that should more than make up for any defense consideration. Playing time should not at all be a factor against picking a pitcher for MVP.
          Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

          When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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          • Golden Glove awards discount hitting entirely.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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            • Originally posted by OzzyKP View Post
              Since the announcers were talking earlier about Verlander for MVP and again throwing in the crappy line about how batters play every game and it is their game to lose. Because of this pitchers should only have a chance if there aren't any good hitters out there. I totally don't buy that argument. Pitchers may only play every 5th game, but pitchers have far more of an impact in each game they play than anyone else.

              JV has pitched in 223 innings so far, so he's faced 669 batters. Granderson has had 505 at bats, Elsbury & Gonzalez 550, and Bautista 440. So while those last four may walk out on the field more days, they don't necessarily play more. And sure, the position players play defense too, but how much does fielding play into an MVP decision? Not much. Even so, since JV faced over 100 more batters than the others faced pitchers, that should more than make up for any defense consideration. Playing time should not at all be a factor against picking a pitcher for MVP.
              Pitchers already have their own reward, its called the Cy Young. Be happy if he gets that.
              "

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              • There is the silver slugger award, and the home run derby, and the batting title and probably other offensive awards I'm forgetting. MVP is the one award that ALL players are eligible for. Yes, pitchers too.
                Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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                • MVP and Cy Young are the only awards anyone cares about...

                  Silver Slugging = A joke
                  Home run derby = A punishment
                  Batting title = Highest batting average...not really an award.
                  Last edited by EPW; September 5, 2011, 00:10.
                  "

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                  • Even so, MVP is for all players. Pitchers have won it in the past. The award was always intended to apply to pitchers as well as hitters.
                    Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                    When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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                    • I know they can win it, that doesn't mean they should.

                      FYI, Bautista, Ellsbury, Granderson and pedroia have all been more valuable than Verlander this year.
                      "

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                      • Originally posted by EPW View Post
                        I know they can win it, that doesn't mean they should.

                        FYI, Bautista, Ellsbury, Granderson and pedroia have all been more valuable than Verlander this year.
                        Why do you think that?

                        Without Verlander Detroit doesn't make the playoffs. You can't say the same about the other four.
                        Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                        When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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                        • Originally posted by OzzyKP View Post
                          Why do you think that?

                          Without Verlander Detroit doesn't make the playoffs. You can't say the same about the other four.
                          Player / WAR
                          Bautista 7.9
                          Ellsbury 7.7
                          Pedroia 7.4
                          Granderson 6.7
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          Verlander 6.4

                          Baseball statistics for Major League baseball and Minor League baseball with statistical analysis, graphs, and projections.


                          And I don't think players should be punished for being on good teams.
                          "

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                          • Originally posted by EPW View Post
                            Player / WAR
                            Bautista 7.9
                            Ellsbury 7.7
                            Pedroia 7.4
                            Granderson 6.7
                            .
                            .
                            .
                            Verlander 6.4

                            Baseball statistics for Major League baseball and Minor League baseball with statistical analysis, graphs, and projections.


                            And I don't think players should be punished for being on good teams.
                            2010 AL

                            Evan Longoria 7.6
                            Miguel Cabrera 7.2
                            Josh Hamilton 7.0 MVP

                            2010 NL

                            Albert Pujols 7.1
                            Ubaldo Jimenez 6.8
                            Roy Halladay 6.6
                            Adam Wainwright 6.2
                            Adrian Gonzalez 6.0
                            Joey Votto 5.9 MVP

                            2009 AL

                            Zack Greinke 9.0
                            Joe Mauer 7.9 MVP

                            2008 NL

                            Albert Pujols 9.2 MVP

                            2008 AL

                            Joe Mauer 8.7
                            Cliff Lee 7.3
                            Kevin Youkilis 6.0
                            Josh Hamilton 5.4
                            Alex Rodriguez 5.4
                            Ichiro Suzuki 5.4
                            Ian Kinsler 5.3
                            Dustin Pedroia 5.2 MVP

                            2008 NL

                            Albert Pujols 9.6 MVP

                            Winners and Vote Totals for the MVP, Cy Young, Rookie of the Year, and Manager of the Year Awards


                            So only twice in the last three years did the player with the best WAR get MVP, and both times it was Pujols. WAR clearly isn't the end all, be all of MVP voting. Nice try.
                            Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                            When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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                            • Do you even read his posts?

                              Originally posted by EPW View Post
                              I know they can win it, that doesn't mean they should.
                              I don't go that far, but FWIW, when players who have such a lower Wins Above Replacement than the leader win it, it is a travesty.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                              • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
                                Do you even read his posts?
                                Me? He trotted out the lame argument that pitchers shouldn't win MVP just because. Then he trotted out WAR, and I responded to that showing that there hasn't been a direct relationship between WAR and MVP victory. So what else did I miss?

                                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
                                I don't go that far, but FWIW, when players who have such a lower Wins Above Replacement than the leader win it, it is a travesty.
                                WAR isn't a flawless stat. Why should we base such an important award on one stat?
                                Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                                When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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