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Thread: MLB 2011!!

  1. #211
    Imran Siddiqui
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    Was anyone saying he wasn't? The relevant question with Pedro Martinez is whether he is the greatest pitcher of all time.
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    "Dominance" can be interpreted in many ways, depending on whether you're looking at a run of peak years or overall career. I know we all mythologize our own eras, so I find the normalization sabermetrics interesting, even if I don't always agree with the conclusions.

    The most consistently dominant pitcher during my adult life? Clemens is tempting, but based on actual observation and how he intimidated some of the best offensive talent of his time, I have to nominate Steve Carlton.
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    To me, the most dominant pitcher, at least since integration, was Pedro Martinez. From 1997 to 2003, spaning two leagues, he went 118-36 (.766 winning percentage) with 2.20 ERA, 1761 strikeouts, a ERA+ of 213 (which is so incredible it defies words), a WHIP of 0.940, 11.3 K/9, and 5.59 K/BB.

    To put that ERA+ in perspective, remember that was his AVERAGE for 7 seasons. On the single season list, a 213 ERA+ would be tied for 25th ALL TIME. And, of course, 3 of those above it would be Martinez's himself (including #1 in the modern era, when he had a 291 in 2000).
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
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    Yep, that's pretty dominant. But I'll still take Lefty.
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    Imran Siddiqui
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    WOW, what a finish in the NL! Right now, with the final game of the season (maybe) tomorrow, the Giants are up on the Padres by 1 game and play them tomorrow and the Padres and Braves are tied for the NL Wild Card, with the Braves playing the Phillies.

    If both teams win, there will be two playoff games (one for NL West and then the next day for NL Wild Card) and all sorts of other one game playoff scenarios (of course if the Pads win and Braves lose its all settled without one or vice versa).
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
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    In my lifetime, the two most feared pitchers, ie, the two pitchers that you hoped missed your team in the rotation, were Pedro and Randy Johnson. I'm not totally sure that Pedro was more feared than The Big Unit, though his stats were a bit better. Pedro was almost under the radar for a while, because he pitched for the Expos. By the time he pitched for a team anybody watched, though, he was definitely well respected.
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    Imran Siddiqui
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    And a fun game in the Braves-Phillies series as the Braves barely squeak by the Phils and then the Giants shut out the Padres.

    And the playoffs are on! Starting out with the AL East Champs (thanks Boston) Tampa Bay Rays against the Texas Rangers.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy369 View Post
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    In my lifetime, the two most feared pitchers, ie, the two pitchers that you hoped missed your team in the rotation, were Pedro and Randy Johnson. I'm not totally sure that Pedro was more feared than The Big Unit, though his stats were a bit better. Pedro was almost under the radar for a while, because he pitched for the Expos. By the time he pitched for a team anybody watched, though, he was definitely well respected.
    What about Nolan Ryan?
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    Yay, Tigers didn't finish under .500.... I got to attend their win today too.

    Now I'm rooting for the Senators to lose horribly to the Yanks and the Senators to win the WS.
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  10. #220
    Imran Siddiqui
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    Nolan Ryan is one of the more overrated pitchers in history. A good pitcher, but threw too many walks, IMO. His career K/BB was only 2.04 (for comparison's sake, Jamie Moyer has a 2.12 career K/BB), which lead to his career ERA+ of 112 (tied for 276th all time).
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

  11. #221
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    (Stating this without doing research, which I realize is dangerous with Imran...)

    Ryan's walk totals are IIRC significantly overstated becasue he was SO wild early in his career. Did he not show much more control in the 2nd half of his career? Whatever. My point is that his wildness, coupled with his extreme stuff, made him quite effective. Intimidating. Thus, yes, he was feared.

    In the 60s, when mounds were mounds and pitchers were allowed to play hardball, there was also Bob Gibson. He had great control, great stuff, and an intimidating demeanor. When a pitch came at your ear, you knew he meant it. He had one season in the late 60s when he was well-nigh unhittable (won the Cy Young and MVP) and didn't miss a start. Saw him several times. Scary to watch.
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  12. #222
    Imran Siddiqui
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    :shrug: I think 'feared' and 'intimidating' are kinda useless measures. Give me the dominant Greg Maddux over the feared Nolan Ryan.

    As for Ryan getting less wild with age... not much. From the ages of 30 to 40, he had a 2.10 K/BB.

    I do wonder sometimes just how good Pedro Martinez could be if he played in the 1960s, with the high mound and more umpire tolerance for throwing inside.

    As for Gibson, his 1968 season was just simply wonderful.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

  13. #223
    Arrian
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    I've never seen a pitcher as dominant as Pedro in 1999-2000, but to be fair I've only really been paying attention since mid-1998. The man was an artist (with ridiculous stuff). I actually almost enjoyed watching him carve up my Yankees in that 17K, 1H (Chilli Davis solo shot off the foul pole) game in '99. His stats, at his peak, are up there with any pitcher in history. Others have managed longer careers, more IP, etc. But if you're talking peak value only? Give me peak Pedro. He was a god.

    Playoffs:

    The Yankees pitching is a mess right now, so I would be unsurprised by a first-round loss to the Twins. Yeah, yeah, the Twins have this awful record against the Yankees lately. Sure. That continues until it doesn't, ya know? The Twins have a much more balanced offense than in the past, while still having solid pitching. Their only glaring weakness is corner OF defense. With Pettitte's poor performance coming back from injury, I'd call the series a push, perhaps slight edge to Minny.

    Rays-Rangers I'd say small advantage Rays.

    The Phillies seem to me to be the class of the NL. What a 1-2-3 punch in their rotation!

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    SlowwHand
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    Go Rangers.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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    Everyone who missed out on the Phillies game, you probably won't see that again in your life. Amazing. Haven't felt like I was watching history since the Joe Carter homer and that was almost 20 years ago.

    Roy Halladay, one pitch from perfection. The most dominating performance I've ever seen, and that includes his perfect game this season.

    If anyone could get me a tape of the entire game, I would be thrilled.
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    Imran Siddiqui
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    How can the Reds bounce back from something like that? Though, not that anyone really expected to win the series...
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
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  17. #227
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    That comments gives me a deja vu from 1984, after the Cubs drubbed the Padres 12-1 iirc in Game One.

    I'm more concerned with the Twins, who really let a golden opportunity slip away. They seem to have a real mental block vs. the Yanks.
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    Imran Siddiqui
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    Though in 1984, it was a 7 game series. Easier to come back in a longer series. Falling behind in a 5 game one is brutal.

    And Rays look like they are going to go down 2 games to 0 .
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
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  19. #229
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    Uh, no. Check your records, Imran. Cubs won the first two, then lost three.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/po...984_NLCS.shtml

    As you say, it was brutal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowwHand View Post
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    Go Rangers.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

  21. #231
    OzzyKP
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    I'm all about rooting for the underdog. Go Rangers!
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    I think the winner in the A.L. takes it this year. The Rangers had a harder time with the Rays this year than the aging Yankees.

    "It's time." ~ Nolan Ryan
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  23. #233
    Imran Siddiqui
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    Wow, Tim Lincecum with a great game. 2 hits, 14 K's of the Braves. 1 run is all that's needed.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
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  24. #234
    Imran Siddiqui
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    And the Yankees are the first team into the LCS, as they sweep the Twins, who can't do ANYTHING right in the postseason... and the Rays stave off elimination.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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    The Twins can't throw on defense worth spit. It was disgusting to watch.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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  26. #236
    Arrian
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    Watching Phil Hughes, who I've been following since he was in AA, dominate for 7 innings in a playoff game was a thing of beauty. Damn, that felt good.

    Well, I was wrong regarding the Yankees pitching. Pettitte came up huge, showing his injuries are not an issue. Hughes, I think, really benifitted from the extra rest. The O did its usual thing, and the D was solid. The Twins OF defense did not distinguish itself, which I expected. That's about the only thing I got right. Hey, I'll take it

    Meanwhile, Rangers-Rays goes 5.

    What is up with the ALCS starting on Friday? The latest the D-series could have gone is Tuesday. Minimum of 2 days off between. WTF?

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    snoopy369
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    That's the Phillies' choice. The #1 seed (Phils) chooses 2 days off before they start, or after they conclude. They chose the obvious "both".
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  28. #238
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    Well it's because of Halladay Oswalt and Hamels. Can't blame them. This way they can play all three.
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  29. #239
    Imran Siddiqui
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    Game 5 of the Rays v. Rangers on Tuesday! Lee vs. Price. Should be a great one!
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
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  30. #240
    Imran Siddiqui
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    NLCS is set! Phillies vs. Giants as San Fran dispatches the Braves. Should be some GREAT pitching duels! Can't wait to see Halladay vs. Lincecum!
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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