Aeterna Civitas III

civ2units · September 23, 2009, 15:53

Originally Posted by McMonkey

I think I will have to give @CIVILIZE2 a miss, I don't fancy starting from scratch

That´s the reason why I also don´t use it. I´m working with the good old MGE method, restricting techs by setting the first tech nil / no when using a civ specific tech tree or no / no when making units available later in game via events.

Salaambo · September 24, 2009, 11:58

Is this intended for Multi-player and single player?

If I were you, I would swap the "Germanics" for the Parthians. The Germanics were really just barbarians in the ancient world, so you do not need to represent them as a playable civ.

The Parthians on the other hand were major players during the Rise of Rome. In fact the two winners of the last few centuries BC were clearly the Romans and the Parthians.

It was the Parthians, not the Romans that conquered most of the Seleucid Empire. Having the Parthians as a playable civ will put pressure on the Seleucids from the east which is not only historically accurate, but also should make the game more even and exciting in multiplayer mode.

Turno71 · September 24, 2009, 12:32

Surely Mithridates' conquest of Babilonia worried a lot Seleucid rulers, but this happened a lot later in the scen. Parthians will have to start as a little, seminomadic civ in Turkmenistan steppes, using a mix of greek and indigenous units at first. The fabled Parthian army reformation also happened later. To make sure they are not going to be whipped out early in the game from the mighty Seleucids is not going to be easy...

McMonkey · September 24, 2009, 13:23

This is a single player ToT scenario. I agree with you about the Parthians in a multiplayer game and I may make that change in any future multiplayer updates. One downside may be that the human controlled nations just expand into the Germanic territory against the barbarian AI which would be an even worse situation. Also, if the Germanics aren't a real nation then surely neither are the Celts!?

As there is no more spare slots left to use in the single player version I think the Seleucids and Parthians will need to be combined. Later in the game the Seleucids will get a lot more Parthian units, but unfortunately the nations name will remain the same!

I don't want to cut the Germanics as they will be a major obstacle to the Romans expansion. Also it was the only part of Europe the Romans never conquered, in fact they came a cropper there in 7ad. Whats more the Roman Empire was eventually overrun by tribes from the east!

McMonkey · September 24, 2009, 15:08

Just to follow up on this point:

I am trying to find ways to coax the players into historically realistic situations whilst still allowing them freedom to make up their own strategy. I want to avoid straight forward time based events that will grind against what is actually happening in the game.

One idea I have had is to use the trade reducing techs (Flight etc...) from the beginning and have them removed if certain criteria are met, thus making trade more effective. For example the Romans begin with the Flight tech and if they can take all the cities of Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia (IE the spoils of the first Punic War) from Carthage then an event (making use of flags) removes the Flight tech from the Romans thus increasing their trade by 1/3. I would do the same kind of thing with the Greeks of Magna Graecia and for the Peloponnese.

This would allow the Roman to expand northwards first if they wish, but encourage them to fight the historical enemies first to secure their trade revenues. Later in the game I will probably give the Flight type techs back via events to compensate for a growing Roman Empire. I will also be placing wonders in enticing locations to help encourage the players to follow a historically realistic part. Does this idea sound feasible?

I have started working out where to place wonders and events to direct the flow of the game somewhat. Here is the plan so far. There are still several more wonders to add:

McMonkey · September 27, 2009, 05:45

I have encountered a mysterious bug. I have just noticed that the Velite unit is no longer buildable by Rome. I have checked the rules and everything looks ok:

@UNITS
Velite, Roc, 0, 2.,0, 6a,2d, 2h,4f, 4,0, 0, nil, 000001000000110

@UNITS_ADVANCED
10000000, 00000000,-1, 0000000000000000,0000000000000000,0000000000000000 , 10000000 ;Velite

Column A (10000000) is set the same as the other Roman units. I thought it might be because the unit was in the Partisan slot so I swapped it and saw no change. The Legion Standard unit is in the Musketeer slot but it has very low Att/Def stats. Could it be to do with adding Leonardo's Workshop to Rome? I don't understand why it is just the Velite missing and not the other Roman units. Any ideas?

EDIT: I think I have solved this. I changed the Velite's role to Air Superiority and it is back on the production menu. I would still be interested why it wasn't showing up when its role was attack so I can avoid this in future.

Aside from this, I have added the wonders (see screenshot). I'm hoping this will entice players to fight the Greeks of Magna Graecia and the Carthaginians first. Any thoughts on the wonders/minus tech events placement?

McMonkey · September 28, 2009, 17:13

I have finished placing / renaming / Icon finding the wonders. The map below shows the spread. I am trying my hardest to make the game as tough for the player as possible so that gaining these wonders and new techs will be a necessity rather than a luxury bonus.

The increases in trade through the capture of Magna Graecia, Sicily and Greece will be stripped back away later on in the game to keep the Roman's finances in check. Capturing the Punic War Academy will give the Romans the tech that obsoletes the wonder, thus denying it to the remaining Carthaginian cities. I could delay the arrival of this obsoleting tech for a few years to allow the Roman victors to pass on their skills to new recruits.

The capture of Byzantium will allow the construction of Grain Markets (Supermarkets) and then the capture of all the Hellenic Black Sea cities will give the Refrigeration tech to allow double Irrigation. I am considering making the post Marian reform Legions into settler (IE food eating) units to slow down the growth of Roman cities later in the game and hopefully balance things a little. This will take some work to get right!

One problem I am having is that the Leonardo's Workshop wonder is not updating the existing units when they get the obsoleting tech. Production options in cities update OK but I was hoping the existing Roman army would be updated too. I have never used Leo's Workshop in a scenario before so I am probably missing something really simple. Could someone explain briefly how to get this to work. Is it about the replacing units stats?

I have also gone through the tech tree with a fine tooth comb and fixed many minor (and a few major) bugs and anomalies. I have also renamed a few techs to make the tree more logical. In general I have revised it to suit a single player game instead of a multiplayer one. Getting it spot on will certainly require some play testing.

Just wanted to post some of my progress, as much for my own benefit as for you guys

techumseh · September 28, 2009, 18:27

Navigable rivers may not be necessary in an ancient scenario, but if you do include them, surely the Nile is on the list?

McMonkey · September 29, 2009, 11:43

Good point, I hadn't really acknowledged that myself. The rivers in this scenario will act more as barriers than water highways. The Nile is there for trade and as a transport link to the coast so I probably won't change in at this point.

Quick question. Will this event work (IE Will text appear when Carthage captured and Tech arrive ten turns later or will I need two separate events?):

@IF
CITYTAKEN
CITY=Carthage
ATTACKER=Romans
DEFENDER=Anybody
@THEN
JUSTONCE
TEXT
The military power of Carthage is broken. Take advantage of your troops experience to train some new recruits to veteran standard. Be quick, this oportunity won't last long!
ENDTEXT
Delay
Delay=10 *(=10 turns?)
GIVETECHNOLOGY
TECHNOLOGY=93 *(Obsoletes Sun Tzu's)
RECEIVER=Romans
@ENDIF

Also, what is the turn 200 effect? I think it relates to trade or science but I'm not sure exactly what it does.

McMonkey · October 5, 2009, 14:43

I have been busy making events and revising the unit stats again to favor the attacker, both AI and human. Holding onto cities seems like a challenge, especially when the events kick in!

I was wondering if someone would like to do an early playtest just to give me some feedback and someone to bounce ideas off. I'm not looking for a thorough playtest all the way through, just a fairly quick and loose game. This will help reassure me that I'm not heading off down a blind alley and it will give me someone to consult who has seen the game in its new form.

AGRICOLA · October 5, 2009, 15:21

Originally Posted by McMonkey

Quick question. Will this event work (IE Will text appear when Carthage captured and Tech arrive ten turns later or will I need two separate events?):

@IF
CITYTAKEN
CITY=Carthage
ATTACKER=Romans
DEFENDER=Anybody
@THEN
JUSTONCE
TEXT
The military power of Carthage is broken. Take advantage of your troops experience to train some new recruits to veteran standard. Be quick, this oportunity won't last long!
ENDTEXT
Delay
Delay=10 *(=10 turns?)
GIVETECHNOLOGY
TECHNOLOGY=93 *(Obsoletes Sun Tzu's)
RECEIVER=Romans
@ENDIF

Also, what is the turn 200 effect? I think it relates to trade or science but I'm not sure exactly what it does.

I can't answer either of your questions but do have one of my own about the wording of the popup. I read it to mean that the Romans have had Sun Tzu for some time. Correct? Or did you just give the wonder to them?

Perhaps you can e-mail me the latest version, I believe you have my address. BTW, who do you want to play, St Agri or Agri the Awful? Believe it or not, in JOHN SOBIESKI the saintly one has maintained his spotless reputation while doing about as well as the despicable one did in an earlier test.

McMonkey · October 6, 2009, 12:31

Thanks a lot Agricola. I will try and finish off the events (that I have planned so far) for this weekend and e-mail you the files.

For now I would prefer St.Agri. Save the scenario crushing Agri the Awful for the proper Alpha test

As I said, I'm not looking for a thorough play through, I just wanted someone else to see what I was up to so I could bounce some ideas off them and so any obvious bugs (the type so obvious the designer often misses them!) can be highlighted.

With the Sun Tzu wonder I was planning for it to be in use for several turns (say 10 years) so the Romans can profit from its effects for a while. After this period the wonder will become obsolete. Taking the wonder will also deny it to the remainder of the Carthaginian cities. The capture of Carthage should be a priority for Rome as it will end the Carthaginian threat and will also make Rome a force at sea (Lighthouse).

barthi · October 6, 2009, 16:46

If I can help you say it with other naval units, we as to A Soaring Spirit!

Barthi

McMonkey · October 7, 2009, 11:37

Thanks for the offer Barthi but I am happy enough with BeBro's old ships. They seem to fit in well with the other units and they all look different enough to be easily identifiable. They also look pretty authentic for the period. That said I would consider using any new units that fit the above criteria if you decide to make them anyway

alchemist_7387 · October 10, 2009, 13:22

Hello, McMonkey! I've modified your Aeterna Civitas II for a "2.1 version". Please take a look! I'm sad to know that Aeterna Civitas III won't be for Civ2 MGE... In my opinion, it's better than ToT >

Thanks!

alchemist_7387 · October 10, 2009, 13:32

[QUOTE=alchemist_7387;5689353]Hello, McMonkey! I've modified your Aeterna Civitas II for a "2.1 version". Please take a look! Only the things I've modified are in the .rar file, ok? I'm sad to know that Aeterna Civitas III won't be for Civ2 MGE... In my opinion, it's better than ToT >

Thanks!

McMonkey · October 11, 2009, 06:16

Hi alchemist

Thanks for taking the time to mod this scenario. Both versions of Aeterna Civitas (I and II) were designed specifically for multiplayer (PBEM) games and were never intended for serious single player use. I am a huge fan of MGE but ToT has some major advantages for designers and players for single player games. The most important advantage of ToT is its much larger and more flexible events. Without the much larger events file I don't think I could improve the game enough to make it a real challenge for players.

I intended to do some work on ACIII today so I will take a look at your mod and see what I can plunder

alchemist_7387 · October 13, 2009, 17:32

Hi, Mc Monkey!

I agree with u about ToT... It's much more flexible and has a lot of potential to create interesting scenarios. What I don't like in ToT is the game style, do u understand? Well... maybe 'cause I'm used to play Civ2 for several years before ToT

If u agree, I'm trying to build an "Aeterna Civitas III" for MGE, probably including Parthians instead of Germans... I didn't decided it yet. Is "A Soaring Spirit" your scenario? When the official version will be released? I'm moddin' it too, 'cause I've found some little problems...

1) Which are those "resource" terrains? They are ugly and don't seem to represent exactly a special type of real terrain.

2) The game now starts at 750 BC, what give to the player(s) a lot of time until the first persian invasion. I guess the greek civs should have only 50 or 60 years of time before the first persian invasion... I've played with the Spartans and conquered all Greece and Macedonia even before the persians could think about an attack...

3) Shouldn't the "lydians" be "persians' instead? This means they'll be strong right in the beginning of the game, eliminating the use of the "eastern fortress"...

Well... this is it for now! I hope we can work together on both Aeterna Civitas III and A Soaring Spirit (if u like, of course... 'cause I know nothing about drawing units and such things... consider me just a tester and an advisor, ok?). Thanks a lot, Mc Monkey!

McMonkey · October 13, 2009, 18:43