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  • Helping the uninsured by threatening them.

    I'm not sure what to make of this yet.

    By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press Writer Ricardo Alonso-zaldivar, Associated Press Writer – 19 mins ago

    WASHINGTON – Americans who refuse to buy affordable medical coverage could be hit with fines of more than $1,000 under a health care overhaul bill unveiled Thursday by key Senate Democrats looking to fulfill President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

    The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fines will raise around $36 billion over 10 years. Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage. Under the federal legislation, families would pay higher penalties than individuals.

    In a revamped health care system envisioned by lawmakers, people would be required to carry health insurance just like motorists must get auto coverage now. The government would provide subsidies for the poor and many middle-class families, but those who still refuse to sign up would face penalties.

    Called "shared responsibility payments," the fines would be set at least half the cost of basic medical coverage, according to the legislation.

    In 2008, employer-provided coverage averaged $12,680 a year for a family plan, and $4,704 for individual coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation's annual survey. Senate aides, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly, said the cost of the federal plan would be lower but declined to provide specifics.

    The legislation would exempt certain hardship cases from fines. The fines would be collected through the income tax system.

    The new proposals were released as Congress neared the end of a weeklong July 4 break, with lawmakers expected to quickly take up health care legislation when they return to Washington. With deepening divisions along partisan and ideological lines, the complex legislation faces an uncertain future.

    Obama wants a bill this year that would provide coverage to the nearly 50 million Americans who lack it and reduce medical costs.

    In a statement, Obama welcomed the legislation, saying it "reflects many of the principles I've laid out, such as reforms that will prohibit insurance companies from refusing coverage for people with pre-existing conditions and the concept of insurance exchanges where individuals can find affordable coverage if they lose their jobs, move or get sick."

    The Senate Health Education, Labor and Pensions bill also calls for a government-run insurance option to compete with private plans as well as a $750-per-worker annual fee on larger companies that do not offer coverage to employees.

    Sens. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., and Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said in a letter to colleagues that their revised plan would cost dramatically less than an earlier, incomplete proposal, and help show the way toward coverage for 97 percent of all Americans.

    In a conference call with reporters, Dodd said the revised bill had brought "historic reform of health care" closer. He said the bill's public option will bring coverage and benefit decisions driven "not by what generates the biggest profits, but by what works best for American families."

    The two senators said the Congressional Budget Office put the cost of the proposal at $611.4 billion over 10 years, down from $1 trillion two weeks ago.

    However, the total cost of legislation will rise considerably once provisions are added to subsidize health insurance for the poor through Medicaid. Those additions, needed to ensure coverage for nearly all U.S. residents, are being handled by a separate panel, the Senate Finance Committee. Bipartisan talks on the Finance panel aim to hold the overall price tag to $1 trillion.

    The Health Committee could complete its portion of the bill as soon as next week, and the presence of a government health insurance option virtually assures a party-line vote.

    In the Senate, the Finance Committee version of the bill is unlikely to include a government-run insurance option. Bipartisan negotiations are centered on a proposal for a nonprofit insurance cooperative as a competitor to private companies.

    Three committees are collaborating in the House on legislation expected to come to a vote by the end of July. That measure is certain to include a government-run insurance option.

    At their heart, all the bills would require insurance companies to sell coverage to any applicant, without charging higher premiums for pre-existing medical conditions. The poor and some middle-class families would qualify for government subsidies to help with the cost of coverage. The government's costs would be covered by a combination of higher taxes and cuts in projected Medicare and Medicaid spending.
    Get Health Insurance or Else!
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

  • #2
    I'm having to do COBRA in my atttempt to escape "pre-existing condition" on my heart.
    I'm wondering if being able to go to the V.A. would suffice on that rquirement.
    The government is paying 65% for up to 9 months, currently. That still leaves me paying 148 bucks a month, plus 4 prescriptions monthly.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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    • #3
      Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
      I'm having to do COBRA in my atttempt to escape "pre-existing condition" on my heart.
      I'm wondering if being able to go to the V.A. would suffice on that rquirement.
      The government is paying 65% for up to 9 months, currently. That still leaves me paying 148 bucks a month, plus 4 prescriptions monthly.
      Ouch, that sucks seriously. Thogh, since you have saved all that money due to the lack of taxes spent on public healt care, I guess that it isn't a problem
      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

      Steven Weinberg

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      • #4
        Yeah. That's right. I have so much cash laying around that I burn it in the fireplace during cold winters.
        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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        • #5
          Well, I may have misunderstood you - I assumed that yanks and especially texans was against common health care
          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

          Steven Weinberg

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          • #6
            I'm not much for dying either.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

            Comment


            • #7
              This isn't about helping the uninsured, MrFun. It's basically tax on healthy poor people.

              Comment


              • #8
                It's like auto insurance. If you don't want mandatory auto insurance you don't have to drive. By the same token, if you don't mandatory health insurance, you don't have to live.
                I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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                • #9
                  That about sums it up.
                  Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                  "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                  He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In economics this problem is called adverse selection. Sick people will always be willing to buy fairly priced insurance, while healthy people will tend to withdraw from such a plan. This eventually raises the cost of insurance to sick people, driving more healthy people out. Several small insurance plans have collapsed because of this. (e.g., Harvard University's employee health care plan a few years ago.) Requiring everyone to buy some insurance, or penalizing them for not buying, helps prevent this problem.

                    edit: spelling
                    Last edited by Adam Smith; July 3, 2009, 03:54.
                    Old posters never die.
                    They j.u.s.t..f..a..d..e...a...w...a...y....

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                    • #11
                      This isn't about helping the uninsured, MrFun. It's basically tax on healthy poor people.
                      This BTW is part and parcel of our system up here. Buy our health care or we break your kneecaps.
                      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                      • #12
                        Personally I am against the socialist medicine plan, it has its perks yes, but I don't see taxing people who have insurance to pay for those who don't to pay for their medicines is just wrong. And now penalizing people for not having insurance is just stupid, if someone can't afford private insurance making pay a fine is just dumb. And then forcing people to get government sponsored is even stupider, just seems to police state/fascist to be apart of a FREE country. When I couldn't afford to drive I dropped my mandatory insurance and didn't drive, just like you said Theben. I can't afford medical insurance now, but if need be I do have my VA benefits, as does my wife.
                        "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
                        "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                          This BTW is part and parcel of our system up here. Buy our health care or we break your kneecaps.
                          But then they're put into casts for free. And you get free crutches.

                          I can't afford medical insurance now, but if need be I do have my VA benefits, as does my wife.
                          Psst. The V.A. is socialized medicine.
                          Last edited by Zkribbler; July 3, 2009, 06:24.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Zkribbler View Post

                            Psst. The V.A. is socialized medicine.
                            For people who have served their country.

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                            • #15
                              What Zkrib means is that the V.H.A. is a full-blown European style socialist system where all the facilities are operated by the government, as opposed to Medicare which is single payer, i.e. the government only picks up the tab. It's also the best managed part of our health sector, far superior to the private system.
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

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