Cradle III...the download

[hexagonian]

Download Cradle III Files and Updates here

Requires Modswapper
Requires Activision Patch

Unzip and overwrite over existing CTP2 files.

Cradle III Zipped Directory
Call to Power 2/...all folders and files

or unzip on desktop and copy files over existing files.

The zipped files include 2 Cradle II play options and a new Cradle III option. If you have an older version of Cradle, remove all old CRA...gamefile.txt files to eliminate older versions of Cradle.


CTP2 CRADLE - v.3.0

A brief history…
Cradle started back in January, 2001. Until 2005, it had been considered to be the best and most innovative of the CTP2 Mods that deviated from the base game. From Cradle came Ages Of Man, which greatly expanded on the gameplay features and attention to detail that were begun in Cradle. AoM was ambitious, well-thought out, and pushed the CTP2 engine to a new limit.

Why Cradle II, and now, Cradle III…
I know…I could play AoM to get a more in-depth game. But AoM's main problem for me was a difference in foundational gaming philosophy. In short the primary focus in AoM was a focus on bloat. The game simply did not allow for a mid-sized empire to win. You had to expand your empire in number of cities to reach a points victory, as well as a powergraph victory. Want to do a Gaia Controller? You are looking at 1,000+ turns to reach that.

With the new features, AoM also suffered from added micromanagement, especially during the Dark Ages. And because of the damage that the Dark Ages could inflict, you were funneled into a select few overall strategies, in order to survive it all. Much of the difficulty in playing AoM was also structured on a variety of AI bonuses and cheats, as well as cheats based on attrition targeting the player (.i.e the Dark Ages and Plague years.) Cheats are fine and do help gameplay, but the goal I have always had was to limit them as much as possible.

In 2005, I gravitated towards civ4 because I felt it was the best meld of all the civ games...both civ/SMAC and the CTP series. And best of all, civ4 created a vast variety of macro strategies that could be followed by both large and smaller civs to win the game. I was playing it since it came out, and had uninstalled CTP2 several years ago. But during the summer of 2008, I decided to revisit CTP2, and started to kick around some ideas that I thought I could fold into Cradle. I went with Cradle instead of AoM because it was my Mod…and rather than get rid of AoM features I did not like, I would also adapt some of the features into Cradle that I did like from AoM, as well as features from other games. (or at least, try to adapt them...)


CRADLE II - Birth of an Empire
- My first goal was to implement a feature that would allow a mid-sized empire to win the game, while giving the player the ability to play that option with 'Bigger is BetterTM' (I've had victory with about 23-28 cities on gigantic maps while the Romans had 40+ cities) In fact, the game could be won with 15 cities. (The victory option actually simulates a cultural/colonial victory approach, and used the Solaris Project as the template)
- The primary focus of Cradle II is again on the Ancient/Medieval timeperiod. The game ends in 1400. (about 600 turns), although there is an option to play the full gamut.
- I activated all of the early game Wonders that I had deactivated when I created Cradle. Originally, Cradle was started as European/Middle East in flavor, so all of the Far East and MesoAmerican wonders were shut down, and were never reactivated when Cradle expanded.


CRADLE II UNITS
- Scout, an early/cheap unit whose only purpose is to explore. It does have stealth, so they can work as sentries later in the game.
- Raider, another stealth unit which simulates mobile horsemen who, although not powerful, have the ability to bombard to give the impression of hit/run tactics.
- A New Set of Wonder units - most Ancient and Medieval wonders now offer these as an added benefit.
- 8 Great House units - these are standalone Wonders that create powerful units that go outside the norm of regular military units with special abilities, and when you create them, you will also get an added normal military unit. Great House Leaders also can create plunder to boost production and/or new recruits, depending on the time in the game.
- Battle Upgrades to Elite/Hero/Great General was added.
- Naval Units now have at least 5 movement points. It allows for a much more enjoyable naval game. I know, the AI naval's ability is really bad...so when I do play, I do not simply overwhelm the AI with naval strength, but at least now, the naval game is quicker.
- Removed ZOC for all units.


CRADLE III - Phoenix
- Religion is now a robust element of the game. Players have 6 religions that they can establish, they can write holy texts and gain Patriarchs, and best of all, they can generate Religious Influence points that go towards a new endgame victory option. (Thanks Maq)
- A new Leadership and Training feature, which allows the player to further boost unit strength through the cost of gold. (again, thanks to Maq)
- All Ancient and Medieval Front-line Units are Government-specific. This means that a player has to carefully consider WHEN he switches government, instead of racing to a government simply to gain the higher city cap. Unit purchase decisions also become simply more than cranking out front-liners.
- Further Refining of Unit Stats.
- PW Pillage Bonuses
- Plunder II disband creates Citizen


CRADLE GRAPHICS UPDATE
- I added a new set of graphic tile improvements, and cleaned up the graphics for the Visible Wonders. Used a combo of original and E's civ3 terrain.
- Implemented the color coding system I had developed for the AOM units, which defined unit ability.
- I created wonder movies for all of my added wonders from Cradle I-III, created a new intro video, and took the existing intro video and used it for the 'Birth of an Empire' endgame option.
- All informational TGA pictures have been cleaned up and improved, and Cradle finally has a consistent picture style for all picture types (backgrounds based on ages)


PLAY SUGGESTIONS
- Gigantic maps,16 civs
- No city razing (keep all cities you take), no battle retreating. These are features that the AI does not use...why should you???

I'd invite any player who has not played CTP2 for awhile to give this a playthrough...even those fans who were not impressed with CTP2 when it came out. After all, it's only a few hours time to give it a shot and to get an impression.


There’s more to come…I’m still kicking ideas around.

[EPW]

I'd invite any player who has not played CTP2 for awhile to give this a playthrough...

So I'm not invited to play it?

It looks really impressive, I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

[Maquiladora]

Great I'm gonna try it with the AE patch once the update is released.

[hexagonian]

Log of proposed changes to make for next version...

CRADLE III BALANCING/BUGFIXES...
Activate bombard ability for Horse Archer
Weaken Pezheteroi defensive strength (Republic-specific unit)

POSSIBLE NEW FEATURES, IF DOABLE...
Civ traits
Random events

ADD NEW GAMEFILE SELECTIONS...
Fast Advance setup (1/3 reduced cost for all advances)
Partial upgrade format for Gov. specific units

[Maquiladora]

POSSIBLE NEW FEATURES, IF DOABLE...
Civ traits
Random events

In AoM I felt that whichever civ you picked, their traits didn't change your style that much. Mainly because the traits were too weak.

I think traits are more interesting when you have to adapt your play style around them to win. Like in civ rev, with every trait being overpowered, it makes you play every civ differently, giving you the feeling of a different game every time.

The only problem here might be the AI, but maybe you can cheat a little and give traits matching the AI's personality (economic trait to shrewd international traders, military trait to aggressive imperialists etc), that way you don't have to worry about adapting the AI, and that AI will act in a logical and intuitive way to the human. "I'm dealing with a warmonger here, so they'll have a large and strong military, but they also have their civ trait which gives free granaries so they'll have large cities..." etc.

Maybe have a civ trait and a random leader trait (or given specifically in the case of the AI personalities) at the start. That way different play styles can be combined, but it can still have a random element so the player is given new challenges too.

[hexagonian]

Some additional thoughts about the features of Cradle...

I understand if the focus of a player may not match up with mine on what makes a good game. However, I also feel that Cradle is enjoyable to play, so if what you see (below) interests you, I’d urge you to give it a try.

I developed Cradle with an eye on my particular playstyle. Elements are not only there to counter how I play, but to go beyond a simple game of ‘create units to conquer cities’. I also wanted to create a game that had personality, so there are a lot of unique units in the game that are not ‘generic’ in nature.

Cradle is not perfect either, because it is very complex. I probably have missed some exploits, because it never occurred me to to play a particular way. If you play Cradle and you do find an inbalance, feel free to post what you see. In fact, I want feedback. I’d only ask that you do it in a manner that is not petty and hyper-critical. I am more than willing to make those changes too. But bottom line…Cradle is not the end-all of gaming. It is simply an option, and I realize that players have a wide range of gaming choices. For me, it is an enjoyable hobby.

Here are some features that I think give the current version of Cradle distinction over default CTP2, older versions of Cradle and other Mods.

Great Houses
To best describe the benefits of establishing a Great House, I'll focus on the first Great House of the Game, Sargon. You get three units when completed...Sargon himself, an Archer and a Spearman. Usually, you also only have the ability to build Slingers when you have built Sargon, so gaining a stronger ranged units is a nice little bonus. If you gear production towards military units while building Sargon, you can get a good army out in the field and can pick off some cities. Or you can generate city growth with Sargon's battle slaving abilities. When Sargon's stack wins a battle, you get Plunder, which generally cuts 1 turn off of production in any city it is disbanded. Multiply that over a course of a game, and you can see the benefit. During the course of the game Sargon will also generate military units instead of Plunder. Although those units are generally weaker than the current units, they can be used for garrison duty or disbanded for production.

The greatest early benefit of Sargon might be his mobility though. In the early game mobility is the most important ability when you do not have a lot of forces on the map, and being able to use Sargon's wide range of abilities on different fronts quickly is a benefit that cannot be ignored.


Gov-Specific Front Line Units
This feature, IMO, is one that I truly enjoy…
On the one hand, you gain an advantage against the AI, because the AI loses some of it's ability to create a truly balanced stack on a consistent basis. The loss of units when switching governments also means that AI stacks can fall apart while in transit against you. (The AIs in Cradle generally will target the player wherever the AI's location on the map, so some stacks take a long time to get to you). Field battles seem to be easier than in past versions of Cradle. But field battles were never too difficult in Cradle.

On the other hand, ongoing military expansionism is harder to sustain. You do not continually grow your military as in the past because when you switch governments, you will lose a huge chunk of the one type of unit that you really need to take cities. (Cradle has always weighted the game towards city defense too) If you gear your production towards ranged units and flankers, those units will be torn apart when taking well-defended cities. And if you stay in a government for a long period of time, you also hamper expansion because of the city caps...and over time, the AI will have access to much stronger front-line units, putting you back into a hole. Timing your switch can be a problem because if you have a lot of enemy units in your borders, the loss of a large chunk of your army can be devastating.

Gov-specific units are phased out of the game once you reach Democracy. This is to simulate the rise of modern nations and the rise of stable national armies. Although Ancient and Medieval empires had armies, those armies, oftentimes owed more loyalty to their commander rather than to the Empire as a whole.

The end result of this game feature offers a mix...in the early game, it creates the need to think about unit production, rather than simply churning out units, and then later allowing the player to to eventually play with straight unit production. For me, gov-specifics become one of the most enjoyable dilemmas I face in Cradle.


Create Professional Armies
Elites are the means to partially bypass the the government-specific unit limitations. Generate them by fighting battles. Elites are not lost when you switch governments, and are able to upgrade to more powerful units, either through a paid upgrade or through the heat of battle. Used in combo with Great House leaders and with Wonder units, a player can create an army with a unique personality and powerful abilities.


Pillage
A small addition, but you now can pillage and gain PW benefits.


Leadership Training
A simple and elegant means to boost army strength. Simple because it requires no micromanagement. Elegant because it adds depth and personality.


Religion
I admit it, Cradle Religion is a mirror of civ4 culture. It is the means to create an endgame option that goes beyond conquest. And it adds personality to the game, plus it mirrors the impact that Religion has had in history. People may scoff at religion today, but it was probably the one element of history that had the most impact on all the others. (warfare, knowledge, society).


Birth of an Empire
My other endgame feature allows the player to win without conquering rivals. This does not diminish the act or importance of warfare, but it means that the player, if he chooses, must invest heavily in non-warfare elements while protecting what he has. Tip: You also only have to have knowledge of the map to place a Colony, not a unit in the location. Less micromanagement…but be warned, Colonies are expensive and the requirement for map coverage is high.

[evrimy]

problem with AE mod (patch?)

i recently unzipped folders with cradleIII into AE (06-01-09) pathed Ctp2 1.11. the game goes smoothly until turn 40-50, but then crashes to desktop, when it was turn for a specific civilization. it happened both with cradle II and III. is the AE mod (patch) causing the problem?
thanks a lot,
evrim

[hexagonian]

I don't have AE on my system and have not had a crash like that. I do get the early game goody hut wait, which is normal.

I would suspect a possible AE/Cradle conflict mainly because Cradle does use many of the default CTP2 files for support, and with all the changes made in the source code project, it would seem likely that there would be an issue.

Give this a try...install a second clean copy of CTP2 on your hard drive devoted exclusively to Cradle.

[hexagonian]

And if this doesn't work, do this for me.

Launch a new game, go into cheat mode and try to click on the buttons. If the game crashes at that point, then the problem is most likely a missing tga file.

What I will have to do to ensure that all the tga files are in the download is to put all of them in the download. I tried to limit the download to files that were not part of Cradle, but I may have accidentally missed one in the transfer. Unfortunately, there are so many of them that it would be easier to bundle them all...

If anyone else is having the same issue, let me know too.

Are you also saving the game, and using the saves instead of the autosaves??? I use the saves.

[evrimy]

thanks Hexagonian,

I installed a fresh copy of ctp2 devoted to cradle, and now its works fine. In my current game I came untill turn 280 without any problem. With the AE turns were processed faster, but even without it turns are not taking too much time.

I really like the idea of government specific foot-soldiers; it caused some tense moments when I switched from city state to republic in the middle of a world war (and I need to change to tribunal empire now).
The Houses and their heroes are welcome addition as well, especially plunder.

The AI uses too many slavemasters in its stacks (sometimes half of the stack), but I guess its really hard to fix. Its a great mod, keep up the good work!!
evrim

[Martin Gühmann]

i recently unzipped folders with cradleIII into AE (06-01-09) pathed Ctp2 1.11. the game goes smoothly until turn 40-50, but then crashes to desktop, when it was turn for a specific civilization. it happened both with cradle II and III. is the AE mod (patch) causing the problem?
thanks a lot,
evrim

So any savegame, what does the crash.txt say?

-Martin

[hexagonian]

Thanks for the feedback.

Regarding the slavemasters, I'm seriously considering dropping them from the game because their slaving role is filled by the Great House and Great Leaders. I might then pump up the stats of the Slaver as a citizen-stealer though.

I really like the idea of government specific foot-soldiers; it caused some tense moments when I switched from city state to republic in the middle of a world war (and I need to change to tribunal empire now).

In my current game, (t295) the Macedonians are stating to exert more power (they are in first and are trending upward faster than anyone) - they are currently in Dictactorship, so the have access to the most powerful Ancient unit (Praetorians). They are directly south of me. I have seen 4 loaded stacks moving around and am hoping they have other targets in mind. I am in Republic (and I had actually toned down the Pezheteroi stats ingame because I felt they were too strong), but if the Macedonians decide to move against me, I will be outgunned. My original plan was to ride Republic, but I may be forced to switch out of it into something a little stronger. The problem being that if they do move against me, I cannot afford losing part of my army, and then I end up locked in Republic, so I am walking a fine line trying to gauge the direction they will go.

On the flipside, I have the Greeks to the west of my borders. I plundered them throughout the game, killed every settler they sent out, and when I got to Republic, I built a lot of Pezheterois, ganged them up with a couple of Great Leaders and Heroes and took 4 cities in quick succession to get me slightly over the cap (21 cities).

Hence my dilemma...I invested heavily in Pezheterois to take on the Greeks, and can probably play a good defense with them against the Macedonians, but if I wanted to expand at their expense, I will have to switch governments to take advantage of the city caps, and thus I would be seriously vulnerable for a long time because of the loss of my Pezheterois.

And since I face varying degrees of heat on all my fronts, I simply cannot shuffle all of my units south to cover.

It's this balancing act that makes Cradle stand out...In the past (AoM and earlier Cradle), the issue was to continually get bigger and bigger... you crank out units, and eventually you would catch up to the AI in tech. Make sure you upgrade units, and all of this earlier investment comes to fruition because your army is never in danger of losing units. You raced to the more advanced governments because of the caps, and the few turns of anarchy was a mere speedbump...nothing more. Slide your units to the targeted front, switch governments and then move on your victim. The question was never, ''When should I switch??''

Switching governments has real consequences now. Even in civ4, it's not as drastic. And best of all, it's not a cheat or AI boost because the AI is in the same ruleset.

Oh...and having some Great Leaders and Great Houses is a lifesaver. They are the backbone of my army, and their influence in the game mirrors the roles that they actually had as history-changers.

[Maquiladora]

You raced to the more advanced governments because of the caps, and the few turns of anarchy was a mere speedbump...nothing more. Slide your units to the targeted front, switch governments and then move. The question was never, ''When should I switch??''

Switching governments has real consequences now. Even in civ4, it's not as drastic. And best of all, it's not a cheat or AI boost because the AI is in the same ruleset.

I was skeptical about it at first, thinking it might just feel like something to avoid or play around somehow, but it really is a great addition to the game, and it does make climbing the ladder of governments far more interesting. If an empire is changing something as fundamental as it's government then it should go through such an upheaval too.

[hexagonian]

I have also noticed in my game a lot more city changing between the AIs. The Incans were taken out by the Harrapan (and the Incans were not a splinter civ), but now the Harrapan are losing cities to the Shang and the Sumerians.

Sweeet!!!!

[hexagonian]

Here is where my game stands... at t325

I kept an eye on the Macedonians, and noticed that they made a switch from Dictatorship to Tribunal Empire (a peace treaty and an Embassy got me the info). I decided that I would make the switch at that time to Tribunal Empire. It was tense because with my forces stripped (I lost 40+ units - about 25%), I had to consolidate my forces on the hot fronts. I had a variety of enemy forces coming in from the east, so I moved most of my Great House/Great Leader and Elites to that front (this is where their mobility really pays off) I was able to deal with multiple stacks with this force (along with a Fort to do quick heals) To the east, since I had worn down the Greeks, I was able to keep token forces there to hold them off.

To the South, I had to deal with the Shang, who had been marching large stacks at me with regularity, and the Macedonians, who decided that even though they did not have a lot of Legions, they could still march in with their Cataphracts. The combo of Shang and Madecdonians was touch and go. The Shang held the bulk of my forces in a defensive mode, and the Macedonians were able to get a force of 7 Cataphracts into my interior where they promptly took a city, although my garrison was able to inflict some damage on them. I had to shuffle forces on the fly to retake the city (thanks to Alexander the Great).

Rule of thumb...it pays to have a scout perimeter and a ring of watchtowers...and keep track of your Great House/Great Leaders because they will be moving around quite a bit. And a few well-placed Forts are worth their weight in gold.

It will take some time, but with the new government in place, I have some room to do some expansion via the sword, as soon as I get my legions up and running.