Console Wars VI

**El_Cid** · February 5, 2009, 06:33

Originally Posted by DrSpike

...... But given your stated preferences I doubt a few quid off will make a difference for you.

True, i just dont get 10 hours of game for £50 or even £20? The price isnt, has never been the problem, its the shift to less single player gameplay(often) per game period. So until that industry standard goes back to where it used to be, i'll often take a pass over a sale.

@ LotM -

yes to all your points. I think the whole second hand resale thing(in terms of it's boom in the last few years or so) can be put at the feet of the games industry itself - they (just like pretty much all markets(housing etc)) have just gotten too greedy in recent years, and for me the games are not good enough to often out weigh that shift. So yeah i buy the odd second hand game too even though i know it's not exactly helping the industry i want to support with my cash. They just have to try harder, i'm not a mindless consumer!

**self biased** · February 5, 2009, 06:39

Originally Posted by Nikolai

PS3 can play PS1 and PS2 titles. Or, it could until a few months back. That version is now out of production, officially that is.

i was told that the old ps3 models actually had the ps2 hardware in them. they're still backwards compatible with previous generations, but now it's done with emulators instead of hardware.

i'm not sure as to the veracity of this, but it seems plausible enough.

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 09:47

That's correct. I've got a launch PS3 with physical PS2 chips inside and 100% compatibility.

Then they had models that were a hybrid -- it didn't have the PS2 CPU but did have the GPU, and the CPU was emulated.

The newest models don't do BC at all.

**Nikolai** · February 5, 2009, 11:49

Which is the single most idiotic decision from Sony in a while.

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 11:56

Originally Posted by Nikolai

Which is the single most idiotic decision from Sony in a while.

They're bleeding money, they need to cut costs and get the PS3 price down. They're getting their ass kicked by the 360 and it's due to the price.

It's necessary. It's still too pricey.

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 12:18

dp

**DrSpike** · February 5, 2009, 15:04

Originally Posted by El_Cid

True, i just dont get 10 hours of game for £50 or even £20? The price isnt, has never been the problem, its the shift to less single player gameplay(often) per game period. So until that industry standard goes back to where it used to be, i'll often take a pass over a sale.

£50 is flat out wrong. The average price for a new game (say last 3 months) if you keep an eye on play, game and all the other UK sites is £25. The most I have ever paid for a game (on day of release mind you) was £35, unless there were peripherals involved.

Of the 20 odd 360 games I've played the smallest amount of hours played is probably about 20. You say 10 hours probably referring to the fact that most FPS games last about that long for one play-through, but as I've pointed out before good console games these days are designed to be played through twice or even more times, if you like co-op. For me:

Gears: 3 plays through (1 co-op)
Gear 2: 2 plays through (+ another 10 hours on Horde co-op) + many hours MP
CoD4: 3 plays through + MP
Halo 3: 2 plays through + 1 more for skulls & score.

And FPS is probably the genre that offers least hours/replayability if you take out MP. Other games offer more still.

So, in summary, you've overstated the price, and understated the hours, even in an extreme case. It's almost Asher-esqe tactics and I'm disappointed.

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 15:17

At least I'm right when I make an argument.

**Nikolai** · February 5, 2009, 15:34

Originally Posted by Asher

They're bleeding money, they need to cut costs and get the PS3 price down. They're getting their ass kicked by the 360 and it's due to the price.

It's necessary. It's still too pricey.

I agree. PS3 as it is now is a serious problem for Sony. But the appeal of the PS3 does not improve by removing one of the few good features of the console.

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 15:37

They calculated the cost of including a PS2 in each PS3 (~$50) was not worth the benefits. Given how cheap and abundant PS2s are, they are probably correct.

**El_Cid** · February 5, 2009, 15:59

Originally Posted by DrSpike

£50 is flat out wrong. The average price for a new game (say last 3 months) if you keep an eye on play, game and all the other UK sites is £25. The most I have ever paid for a game (on day of release mind you) was £35, unless there were peripherals involved.

...............

So, in summary, you've overstated the price, and understated the hours, even in an extreme case. It's almost Asher-esqe tactics and I'm disappointed.

Most software sales come from high street bricks and mortar stores(i did a post about Sins of the Solar Empires sales figures, and even for a priority download place like Stardock that method(on-line) only covered about 20% of overall sales), and in those places an average new 360/PS3/Wii game comes in at £49.99 or £39.99, not including the odd special offer that happens.

And while Asher isn't here(back again!) we need(ed) the extreme viewpoint imho

In other news, weird software sales figures from japan:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=22180

NO PS3 gamesin the top ten!!!! ouch!!! And my newly beloved PS2 gets in at number 3 with Winning Eleven 2009 - not bad for a supposed dead machine(according to ummm Asher?), even if those numbers are down on the previous years game. Still no PS3 top ten sales....in Japan....thats bad!

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 16:02

PS2 software and hardware sales are down ~50% year over year. Get over it.

**El_Cid** · February 5, 2009, 16:14

welcome back, hope you enjoyed your break

Hey guess what? I just bought:

1. Rogue Galaxy(PS2/100 odd hours sp gameplay)
2. Dragon Quest 8(PS2/100 odd hours sp gameplay)
3. Kingdom Hearts(PS2/40+ odd hours sp gameplay)
4. Xenosaga-Episode II(PS2/100 odd hours sp gameplay)
5. Final fantasy X(PS2/40+odd hours sp gameplay)
6. Valkyrie Profile 2(PS2/60 odd hours sp gameplay)
7. Resident Evil-Cone name veronica X(PS2 ? hours sp gameplay)
8. Stolen(PS2 - booby prize/random choice)

They had some multi-buy deals going

Next up is Ico, We love Katamari and Shadow of the Colosus. lots and lots of gaming(my gf is running through them all first, i'll try them later), and i'm only about 1/16th of the way through my list of good PS2 games to get

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 16:17

Ico is a great game.

I'm glad to see you're catching up to what, 2004? You're getting there.

**Nikolai** · February 5, 2009, 17:44

Let's see Asher.

Rogue Galaxy = 2007 in NA
Dragon Quest 8 = 2005 in NA
Kingdom Hearts = old, 2002 in NA
Xenosaga-Episode II = 2005 in NA
Final fantasy X = old, 2001 in NA
Valkyrie Profile 2 = 2006 in NA
Resident Evil-Cone name veronica X = old, 2001 in NA
Stolen = 2005

A good variety, age wise. And of course, age has nothing to do with enjoyment. You still seems to have problems understanding that people have different tastes.

**DrSpike** · February 5, 2009, 18:03

Originally Posted by El_Cid

Most software sales come from high street bricks and mortar stores(i did a post about Sins of the Solar Empires sales figures, and even for a priority download place like Stardock that method(on-line) only covered about 20% of overall sales), and in those places an average new 360/PS3/Wii game comes in at £49.99 or £39.99, not including the odd special offer that happens.

People that buy games at £49.99 are idiots and don't deserve the pleasures of gaming.

**Nikolai** · February 5, 2009, 18:06

A normal console game cost ~60 pounds in Norway.

**DrSpike** · February 5, 2009, 18:36

Well then I'm sure you'd agree that people who pay £80 for games in Norway are idiots and don't deserve the pleasure of gaming.

**Nikolai** · February 5, 2009, 18:47

Sure thing.

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 19:50

Originally Posted by Nikolai

Let's see Asher.

Rogue Galaxy = 2007 in NA
Dragon Quest 8 = 2005 in NA
Kingdom Hearts = old, 2002 in NA
Xenosaga-Episode II = 2005 in NA
Final fantasy X = old, 2001 in NA
Valkyrie Profile 2 = 2006 in NA
Resident Evil-Cone name veronica X = old, 2001 in NA
Stolen = 2005

A good variety, age wise. And of course, age has nothing to do with enjoyment. You still seems to have problems understanding that people have different tastes.

Oh, **** right off.

Here's some math for you, what's the average of all of those years?

Hint: it's 2004.

You and Ben both seriously share some major common sense/general intellect problems. It's maddening.

**Nikolai** · February 5, 2009, 20:08

Always ready to change the playing rules to fit your changing needs, eh?

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 20:12

I'm not changing any rules. My point is simply that El_Cid is behind me. I've played all those games years ago.

A year ago he said nothing but bad things about consoles. Then he got a PS2 and he's liking it, catching up on the games library. The obvious implication from my statement is eventually he'll catch up to the consoles he's slamming now, like the Xbox 360. He's just behind, is all.

I was obviously not making any qualitative judgement about the quality of the games (in fact, if anything I said Ico -- which is from 2001 -- is a great game), I was making a statement about El_Cid's gaming experience relative to the rest of us who have played the PS2-gen games and moved on to the latest and greatest.

I'm upset I need to spell this out for you, I really feel people on this site should be bright enough to spot the obvious implications on their own without this verbosity.

**flash9286** · February 5, 2009, 20:26

On a different note, I have been playing Fable II and it is a great game. GOTY 2008 for me. The combat is simple but it is pretty fun once you are able to counter, flurry, and do chain attacks.

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 20:30

Fable II is great. I started but haven't finished Knothole.

**lord of the mark** · February 5, 2009, 21:03

"I can summon spirits from the vasty deep" William Shakespeare, Henry IV, Part 1.

**snoopy369** · February 5, 2009, 21:59

What are the odds that XBox Live Marketplace starts selling first-level games [like Steam/Direct2Drive/etc. for PC] any time soon? I was rather disappointed to find it doesn't [unless I'm a moron and can't find it], only demos (for, say, NHL 2009 type games - current, <1yr old, full studio).

**Asher** · February 5, 2009, 22:04

Originally Posted by snoopy369

What are the odds that XBox Live Marketplace starts selling first-level games [like Steam/Direct2Drive/etc. for PC] any time soon? I was rather disappointed to find it doesn't [unless I'm a moron and can't find it], only demos (for, say, NHL 2009 type games - current, <1yr old, full studio).

Funny you mention that...but probably very soon. First step was permitting installable games (you can copy any game from disc to the HD).

The upcoming Halo game (Halo 3: ODST) is supposedly going to be available as a download as well as retail. It'll probably serve as the launch vehicle for downloadable 360 retail games (they love to use the Halo games to launch new services).

They sell some rather large Xbox Live Marketplace games right now, the size has grown steadily. But no full retail games yet.

**flash9286** · February 5, 2009, 22:41

The sell xbox originals on xbox live but those are all over 1 year old. They need to lower the price of the larger harddrive, it is too expensive.

**DrSpike** · February 6, 2009, 14:14

Originally Posted by flash9286

On a different note, I have been playing Fable II and it is a great game. GOTY 2008 for me. The combat is simple but it is pretty fun once you are able to counter, flurry, and do chain attacks.

I'm finding it pretty bland, but I'm not that far in yet. It's already clear that Fallout 3 is much better though.

**flash9286** · February 6, 2009, 15:26

Originally Posted by DrSpike

I'm finding it pretty bland, but I'm not that far in yet. It's already clear that Fallout 3 is much better though.

I enjoyed Fable 2 more than Fallout 3, personal taste I guess. Like I said in the fallout thread the gameplay in Fallout is pretty boring to me, with Vats it is boring w/o vats it is just a below average first person shooter with a lot of side quests. Fable 2 gameplay is simple but I found it fun kind of like an old school button masher game.