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Thread: [BtS Mod] WOLFSHANZE MOD (Industrial Age & Naval)

  1. #121
    AllRoundGoodEgg
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    Yes indeed. But it's no better.

    I mean, Civ IV is showing it as the loaded mod, so that's good. It just isn't making any changes, which is weird.

    Thanks for trying to help, Wolfshanze. I appreciate it because I'd love to play with your mod.
    -M-
    Martin
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  2. #122
    ladiesman
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    I had a problem similar to this......make sure you don't have the mod in BOTH the program files and my documents locations. If it is, it seems to cause problems.

  3. #123
    AllRoundGoodEgg
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    I've just checked... the My Docs setup is clear - no sign of the mod there :-(
    -M-
    Martin
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  4. #124
    AllRoundGoodEgg
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    Okay, so the straight Wolfshanze doesn't seem to work, but the WolfRevolution pack implements it just fine. Which is a relief.

    When I got it running, I noticed that Germany gets many unique units, China has three (though the Halberd is just a same-stat reskin of the Axeman right?), America has two, and the rest get one like before. How is that balanced out... what's the downside to playing Germany to balance out their multiple superior units?
    -M-
    Martin
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  5. #125
    wodan11
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    As Wolf will tell you, for almost all of the units, they don't have any different stats than their "normal" counterpart. They just have a different name and unit graphics. It adds a great deal of flavor but does not cause any balance problem as you are assuming.

  6. #126
    Xeno426
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    Originally posted by wodan11
    As Wolf will tell you, for almost all of the units, they don't have any different stats than their "normal" counterpart. They just have a different name and unit graphics. It adds a great deal of flavor but does not cause any balance problem as you are assuming.
    The only exceptions are small. The special jet bombers for Russian and America have an extra two range, the two unique tanks for Germany split the original Panzer unit's bonus between the two of them, the Longboat for the Vikings (soon to be Scanindavia) is slightly more capable, but not game-breakingly so.

  7. #127
    ladiesman
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    I personally like some civs having a few more.....makes it more realistic. Some civs HAVE in real life excelled at certain things.

  8. #128
    Wolfshanze
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    All of the above... everyone is right... most of the "new" UU's don't do anything different other then a name and/or graphic over the base unit... and yes, there are a few civs that have more then one UU stat-wise, but none of them are game-breakers, and I've never heard of anyone saying "Gee, I would have won outright, but the other civ had one more UU then I did, and because he had an extra point of range or movement on one unit class, I completely lost my game".

    None of the UUs are game-breakers on their own... countries like Germany are often singled-out by new folks to the Wolfshanze Mod has having "five UU's" or something of that sort, but the reality is, most don't do anything special, and those that do (especially for Germany) are closer to being rather lame bonuses then game-winners.
    Wolfshanze Mod: for BtS... adds "flavored Civs", coal-fired navies, WWI units, plus Poland, Austria & Vietnam to Civ4!

  9. #129
    AllRoundGoodEgg
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    Don't get me wrong - I like the variety too. I just was surprised that Germany has so many compared to others. It may not be a game breaker, but psychologically, in game design terms, why did they get so much attention? Their UB is amazing though... wow!

    As for the others, I think the only one to get much more powerful is the vikings - the ability to send units two units into ocean that early in the game is a major bonus on island maps (as Carrack owners have found before - though this happens even earlier). On its own the 'berserker' was pretty powerful I found, so having the two is a major boost. Since they have a weak UB, that's no bad thing perhaps, but a surprise.

    If anything I'd have liked to have seen more UUs with smaller benefits because I like that kind of differentiation. So don't misunderstand my original question - I didn't mean to sound like I wasn't happy. Just a little surprised by the design philosophy.

    By the way Wolf, you haven't answered my question about the artist - who painted the dreadnaughts image for you? I might have some work for him, so again I'm asking in a good way.
    -M-
    Martin
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  10. #130
    Wolfshanze
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    Originally posted by AllRoundGoodEgg
    Don't get me wrong - I like the variety too. I just was surprised that Germany has so many compared to others. It may not be a game breaker, but psychologically, in game design terms, why did they get so much attention? Their UB is amazing though... wow!
    You don't win or lose because of "psychological" reasons. If Germany had one UU or fifty, it doesn't matter if 99% of the UU's are 100% identical statistically with the unit it replaces, as-is the case with the German UUs. It's just a name-thing for Germany, not much of anything else with the UUs.

    In default BtS, the Panzer gets a 50% bonus against other tanks, in the Wolfshanze mod the two Panzers each get a 35% bonus (and both appear and function almost identically), so it's almost a loss, not a gain in UU ability for Germany. The German UB was beefed because the default UB was almost totally worthless and it does beef-up a rather weak UU, so in the end, I think Germany is fairly well balanced, but certainly not overly powerful in any way, shape or form.

    As for other nations and their UUs, I really don't care if nation-x is a little stronger then nation-y... none of them are VASTLY superior to the others, and I really don't think any of the civs have a UU that cannot be overcome. I care more about the "flavor" of the UU complementing it's mother civ then how many UU's a civ may have.
    Wolfshanze Mod: for BtS... adds "flavored Civs", coal-fired navies, WWI units, plus Poland, Austria & Vietnam to Civ4!

  11. #131
    AllRoundGoodEgg
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    Okay, that's cool. Like I say, I'm loving what you've done and I wasn't having a pop at you or anything like that. Mostly, just interested in your design philosophy.

    Anyway, thanks for all the hard work.
    -M-
    Martin
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  12. #132
    Ninja
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    Originally posted by AllRoundGoodEgg
    As for the others, I think the only one to get much more powerful is the vikings - the ability to send units two units into ocean that early in the game is a major bonus on island maps (as Carrack owners have found before - though this happens even earlier). On its own the 'berserker' was pretty powerful I found, so having the two is a major boost. Since they have a weak UB, that's no bad thing perhaps, but a surprise.
    Actually, their UB complements the longboat. With the longboats +1 movement, you have a good shot to circumnavigate and gain another +1. And Ragnar is Financial, which gives +1 commerce in coastals. So if you're playing a water map, Vikings are definitely well off.

  13. #133
    Wolfshanze
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    I never play as the Vikings and have no-problem what-so-ever playing against the Vikings.

    If anyone loses the game to the AI Vikings and wants to blame it on the UU/UB, then personally, I think you need to step-up your game rather then finding excuses as to why you lost.

    Wolfshanze Mod: for BtS... adds "flavored Civs", coal-fired navies, WWI units, plus Poland, Austria & Vietnam to Civ4!

  14. #134
    wodan11
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    Personally, I have absolutely no problem with Germany getting a lot of "attention".

    The logical extension to this argument is for civs who did little to add to world culture or world events to have equal attention.

    Sorry, but I don't really need or want for someone to go out of their way to create a bunch of Khmer graphics.

    Much nicer are cool things like graphics for Brit battlewagons like the Hood, or the Bismark (German), or land units that had more of an impact.

    Now, if somebody really likes the Khmers, and makes graphics for them which are good quality, and otherwise would not be spending their time (i.e., it's the Khmers or nothing), then sure let's have the graphics with our thanks.

    Just me.

  15. #135
    wodan11
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    Saw a special on the Military Channel yesterday with the top 10 ship classes of all time. Was pretty fascinating. Had the Hood, Bismark, pocket battleships, etc.
    Last edited by wodan11; December 21, 2008 at 09:08.

  16. #136
    Wolfshanze
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    For what it's worth, the Khmer do have a lot of custom graphics!
    Wolfshanze Mod: for BtS... adds "flavored Civs", coal-fired navies, WWI units, plus Poland, Austria & Vietnam to Civ4!

  17. #137
    The Capo
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    Originally posted by Wolfshanze
    For what it's worth, the Khmer do have a lot of custom graphics!
    This is true, in fact I think they are covered in Ancient, Medieval and Renaissance, perhaps even modern!
    "Our cause is in the hands of fate. We can not guarantee success. But we can do something better; we can deserve it." -John Adams


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  18. #138
    Wolfshanze
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    Originally posted by The Capo
    This is true, in fact I think they are covered in Ancient, Medieval and Renaissance, perhaps even modern!
    I actually have them covered through modern, though most of their post-industrial modern graphics are generic asian.
    Wolfshanze Mod: for BtS... adds "flavored Civs", coal-fired navies, WWI units, plus Poland, Austria & Vietnam to Civ4!

  19. #139
    The Capo
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    Hey Wolfshanze, I was wondering what colors you were giving Mexico? Becuase I have a bicolor button for them if you want to use it.
    "Our cause is in the hands of fate. We can not guarantee success. But we can do something better; we can deserve it." -John Adams


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  20. #140
    Wolfshanze
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    As of this moment, Mexico is the default colors of Bright Green and Black... currently using that bicolor Mexican Eagle grasping a snake flag (and have no button other then default)... if you have a button, I'm all ears (or eyes).
    Wolfshanze Mod: for BtS... adds "flavored Civs", coal-fired navies, WWI units, plus Poland, Austria & Vietnam to Civ4!

  21. #141
    The Capo
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    Originally posted by Wolfshanze
    As of this moment, Mexico is the default colors of Bright Green and Black... currently using that bicolor Mexican Eagle grasping a snake flag (and have no button other then default)... if you have a button, I'm all ears (or eyes).
    Well mine is green and white, but here it is if you want it. Its in jpg format though.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "Our cause is in the hands of fate. We can not guarantee success. But we can do something better; we can deserve it." -John Adams


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  22. #142
    Wolfshanze
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    That's fine Capo... I can use that.
    Wolfshanze Mod: for BtS... adds "flavored Civs", coal-fired navies, WWI units, plus Poland, Austria & Vietnam to Civ4!

  23. #143
    phungus420
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    Merry Christmas all you Wolfshanze mod civers.

  24. #144
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    Merrry Christmas all

  25. #145
    wodan11
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    I'm just finishing up one of the most enjoyable games I've had in a while.

    Ended up as Vietnam on an island continent. Just a tad bigger than "normal" early expansion size. So, I get to make a decision to early expansion OR take my time, max my research, and allow a neighbor to settle on MY ISLAND. I chose the former.

    Next decision is to commit to military conquest or space. My Island is large enough to support a Space victory, so that's not a limiting factor. Anyway, after feeling a bit "behind" because of the early REX, I decide to consolidate.

    So. Justinian gets the AP but is my 2nd neighbor. I spread his religion and build temples and monasteries to it everywhere. Meanwhile, I get 2 religions and establish shrines. Through spreading missionaries of Justinian's religion, I manage to get both religions establihed in the same city. That becomes my future Wall Street city with both shrines.

    I fail to get the Wall but I begin a push for Privateers. This is what made it one of the most enjoyable games for me.

    I got them very early, and built mabye 30 of them. (Normal size map.) Sent them out in groups of no less than 2, usually 3-4. Let the pwnage begin!

    Many VP later, I had 7 warlords. Here's where it diverged from a "normal" game for me, which is one of the reasons I love Wolfshanze's mod. What's the value of Military Academies? Bleh. Ditto for Heroic Epic and other combos? I'm not focused on strong units or mass production of units. Instead, it's mass production of warlords and sea strength. So, I built Heroic in my biggest production city with the eventual intention of putting Red Cross there (plus Pentagon if I could get it). You might think Trafalgar (with Wolfshanze) which would be a strong play, but not this game. I was focused on land defense plus sea warlords.

    So, I had tons of privateers which dominated quite early. Tons of warlords... about 8 by the time frigates appeared. Why is it Germany gets frigates soonest? Anyway, I pulled back and upgraded. Waited on people to DOW me. Sent my warlord privateers (upgraded to Protected Cruisers, Destroyers, etc.) out to dominate. Was a lot of fun.

  26. #146
    Wolfshanze
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    Glad you guys are having fun... Merry Christmas all... I've been taking a slight "break" over the holidays... spending time with the family and all...

    Hope everyone has a Happy New Year.
    Wolfshanze Mod: for BtS... adds "flavored Civs", coal-fired navies, WWI units, plus Poland, Austria & Vietnam to Civ4!

  27. #147
    Wolfshanze
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    Muhaha...

    Wolfshanze Mod: for BtS... adds "flavored Civs", coal-fired navies, WWI units, plus Poland, Austria & Vietnam to Civ4!

  28. #148
    Ekmek
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    Originally posted by Wolfshanze
    Muhaha...


    break indeed
    Formerly known as "E" on Apolyton

    See me at Civfanatics.com

  29. #149
    wodan11
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    What do modders do in their spare time?

    Why, they mod of course.

  30. #150
    Wolfshanze
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    Outsourced work (now completed)... I'm still "on break".


    And who put "PC" by my name... I'm certainly NOT Politically Correct!
    Wolfshanze Mod: for BtS... adds "flavored Civs", coal-fired navies, WWI units, plus Poland, Austria & Vietnam to Civ4!

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