Tech Discussion

[darrelljs]

I guess we'd still want to wait on drafting though? So probably better to wait...

Darrell

[Sullla]

What do we want to research after paper+education+optics? We need to get something to trade to banana for chemistry. If the GM is still available then economics would be nice.

Even if it duplicates PAL research, I'd say we need to go Printing Press -> Replaceable Parts -> Rifling as soon as possible. Remember, our core strategy at the moment is based on a huge army of drafted conscripts. The sooner we can turn them into rifles instead of oromos, the better.

The one reason to grab Economics would be to get the Merchant there, so that we could save him for Sid's Sushi. T-Hawk's favorite corporation could be critical in the late game, especially if we decide to go for culture. If the Merchant is still there, it's definitely a possibility.

We should try to do everything possible to get Banana to cut all trade with PAL. If Donovan trades any more techs with PAL, it speeds the runaway team further ahead, and seals the doom of us both. It's critical that we convey to Donovan the importance of avoiding all trades, even ones that are heavily in Banana's favor. Emphasize the fate of Rabbits: "You will be next!"

[Swiss Pauli]

I agree that the path is rifling, but I'd propose a different wa of going about it:

Following on from my post about the GS in A1 in the turnplayer thread, I think we'd be well served by assigning 2 scientists here (instead of grass-hill miners) to speed a GS who can part-bulb PP. We go for Economics and send the Merchant to Banopolis for a cash bomb which allows us to plough through the military techs we need, as we won't be able to rely on Banana for too much longer. If we're feeling naughty, we can try to get Banana to build ToA for more cash

[sooooo]

A FYI: If we hire 2 scientists this turn our next GP would be due in 13 turns, T172.

Not sure about the plan either way. Major downside as I see it is that we gut the production of the capital when it needs to be building a university.

[Swiss Pauli]

We could always put them back on the mines when Edu is in, and also chop part of the Uni as well. NB: that date is based on GA GPP doubling, so it will actually be longer.

[sooooo]

We could always put them back on the mines when Edu is in, and also chop part of the Uni as well. NB: that date is based on GA GPP doubling, so it will actually be longer.

I based it on 3 x 45 gpt (golden age) and 10 x 30 gpt. That makes 435 points and we have 433 to go until our next person.

[sooooo]

Any comments from others on Swiss' plan to hire scientists at A1 to speed up a lightbulb of printing press?

[timmy827]

I like the bulb idea for PP. I'm not so sure about Economics - I think that the GM will pay back the beaker cost of researching Economics but not have surplus that will get us to Rifling faster. So if we get the GM that's a "free" tech and nice but not worth going for unless we're sure. Of course we have until the completion of Education to ponder this.

[sooooo]

I think on reflection I'm probably against gimping the production+growth of A1 to get a GS sooner.

I think 13 turns is too long to lose the production and we can use a GS whenever we get him. Rather use that production to make a market and a quicker university.

[MyOtherCar]

Being generally hammer-minded, I'd rather focus on production and build that market and university earlier. I think that'll pay off better in the long run.

[T-hawk]

I would hire the two scientists at A1 while in Golden Age and not in Bureaucracy. Both the hill hammers and university beakers are at less than full efficiency, while Golden Age is the peak time for GPP production.

We are still in the cheap section of the GP cost ramp. For a Great Scientist that costs 400 GPP but lightbulbs for 1600+ beakers, that's a 4x conversion ratio. We would hire those scientists in a heartbeat if they put out 36 beakers each, right? Well, they do. Plus their direct beaker production.

[T-hawk]

Can someone remind me and the lurkers what our next tech plans are? I've forgotten.

Something along the lines of bulbing Printing Press and trading that to Banana for Astronomy?

[Swiss Pauli]

Not quite: we fronted Edu for Astro. We need to get cash together before turning research on again, but PP is a pretty high priority.

[Zeviz]

Since we no longer need it for trade routes, and aren't planning to build labs, should we delay getting Astronomy until we actually need it? (Or until it looks like Banana is about to die.) Among other things, it would give lower discount to PAL, who is currently researching it.

And I agree that Printing Press should be next, heading straight for Rifles.

[Sullla]

Since we no longer need it for trade routes, and aren't planning to build labs, should we delay getting Astronomy until we actually need it? (Or until it looks like Banana is about to die.) Among other things, it would give lower discount to PAL, who is currently researching it.

I concur, was thinking along these same lines. Trade for Astronomy when we need it (when we're ready to start a naval building program or ready to start building observatories).

We have a Great Person due in 11t, with 90% Scientist odds. Assuming we don't get screwed on the dice roll, we can knock out about 70% of Printing Press with him and then go on to Replaceable Part and Rifling.

One worrying sign is that all these immature, low-size cities are really hurting our economy right now. We can only manage 20% science at break-even rate! Now that will definitely improve as they grow up and we cottage over the rich jungle land in the south, but at the moment we're hurting kind of bad. That and we have to support a massive military establishment too... If we get another Golden Age, Mercantilism civic would really be a plus, given how weak our trade routes have become. Merc + Representation especially would be awesome a little later on in the game.

[Dreylin]

If we get another Golden Age, Mercantilism civic would really be a plus, given how weak our trade routes have become. Merc + Representation especially would be awesome a little later on in the game.

How much would our going to Merc hurt Banana, or would we (as a whole) benefit more from both of us being in Merc than both being in something else?

[T-hawk]

Ok. I'm a bit uncomfortable with holding a tech IOU from Banana for so long. I trust them, but it's never impossible Banana could "pull an RB" or Donovan could end up away from the game or even get wiped out faster than we can research Optics.

And we will want Observatories fairly soon - Airstrip One will want it right after Oxford for sure at least.

[MyOtherCar]

Observatories and a navy would be nice

[sunrise089]

I tend to agree with T-Hawk. If we had a good reason to wait I'd be all for it, but risking not getting the tech to deny PAL a small research post isn't worth it IMHO.

[ruff_hi]

the bonus is 1/6 * 0.30 rounded to the nearest 0.01 ... or 5%.

[regoarrarr]

Which is then multiplied by the 1.2 or 1.4 pre-requisite bonus, which would make it 6 or 7%

[Dreylin]

OK, here's another question, how much do we lose out when the Colossus is obsoleted?

[Zeviz]

I forgot to say that the main reason to hold off is that it would obsolete Colossus.

[sooooo]

Personally I'd save money until we finish oxford and then complete Optics, trade for astronomy, hopefully lightbulb PP and finish it and then go full steam ahead on RP. And trade for chemistry. Sounds good!

Obsoleting colossus is annoying but we need to build some ships sometime.

[sooooo]

Eek, just realised that we need to avoid acquiring astronomy or chemistry until our great scientist is born. If we get either of those techs, our GS would lightbulb Scientific Method instead of Printing Press.

89% chance, let's hope we continue our run of scientists. Printing press will be very good for our economy!

[Swiss Pauli]

No, that's not correct: PP is a compulsory pre-req for Sci Meth, so your worries are unfounded And PP is above Chemistry in the bulb list, in case anyone else is wondering...

[sooooo]

Oh, good!