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Best/Favorite new Civ in BtS? (Gameplay wise)

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  • Best/Favorite new Civ in BtS? (Gameplay wise)

    I was wondering what people think is the best (or favorite) new Civ added in BtS (from a gameplay perceptive)?

    For me I think it would be Babylon. Hammurabi's traits are Agg/Org: Org is one of the best traits the game and Agg is a fairly one-sided but useful trait. The UB gives 2+ Health along with the happiness bonus that colosseums normally have and, in my opinion, you can never get enough health.

    Babylon's UU seems like an oddball at first glance as it doesn't benefit from the Agg bonus, however it makes a great rushing unit and I have taken out close neighbors in the early stages of the game via Bowmen rushes quite a few times (especially if they haven't gotten Archery yet) . It also makes a great defensive unit against axe-rushes and is quite useful if you are screwed out of copper and iron and are forced to play a defensive game.

    Other notable mentions:

    Khmer: Expansive is a good trait and I think Creative is a good war-monger trait as it allows you to get your borders out in captured cities without wasting time building culture buildings. The UBs extra food bonus doesn't sound impressive at first but can allow you to work one extra tile or put up one more specialist in some situations. UU is interesting but because you need Ivory for it means that you might not be able to use it some games.

    Dutch: Willem has Fin which is always good. UU is okay but I still don't think naval units are all that good even in BtS. The UB is a powerhouse however, especially if you combine it with the Moai Statues. Main problem with the Dutch is that you can't use them to their full abilities if you are land-locked.

    Maya: Great traits. Pretty good UB (Although I think extra health is much more important than extra happiness, however you do get a health boost from the Exp trait). The UU isn't all that great however.

    Ethiopia: Good traits once again. The UU is pretty impressive and is worth beelining Gunpowder for, although all of those extra first strikes won't be of any use against knights. UB gives a gives a big boost to culture and is not only good for culture wins but is useful when combined with the Cre trait and Stonehenge to get borders out after taking over cities.

    Native Americans: Seems good on paper but I wished they started with mysticism and hunting. They would probably end up overpowered however.
    46
    Babylon
    6.52%
    3
    Byzantines
    2.17%
    1
    Ethiopian
    21.74%
    10
    Holy Roman Empire
    8.70%
    4
    Khmer
    6.52%
    3
    Maya
    0.00%
    0
    Native Americans
    8.70%
    4
    The Netherlands
    32.61%
    15
    Portugal
    8.70%
    4
    Sumeria
    4.35%
    2

  • #2
    The Dutch on a water map are almost unbeatable.

    I also like the Maya - for the music and their lunatic Pacal II.
    And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?". t s eliot

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    • #3
      I'm a big fan of the Native Americans myself. Easiest civ to rush a close enemy with by far - whether that is an archer rush or a axeman (dog soldier) rush. Egypt is better at far-rushes, but if it's close by, the dog soldier/archer rush is pretty wicked; and you can head straight to longbows if you have a tougher enemy.
      <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
      I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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      • #4
        NA suck ass really, you have to get iron to build sowrds to clear out an archers that are choking you because dogs are ttoo low strength to get odds.
        You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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        • #5
          Khmer are awesome though free border pops, cheap workers and half price granaries growing like a weed was never easier (but you do need to know how to finance it, which is why Pacal is a close second.)
          You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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          • #6
            I disagree

            You can archer-rush an archer city rather effectively, and it's not that hard to get longbows if you face an entrenched enemy. Further, it is simple to just choke your enemy with archers (as your archers are so much stronger than theirs) that they cannot produce much on their own anyway. It's as good as the skirmisher at choking, but continues to be good with longbows and crossbows (which are very strong for their eras).
            <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
            I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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            • #7
              Main problem with the NA archer rush is that you need to research Hunting and Archery. As well you need to research Mysticism and build a Totem Pole to get the most out of it. This gives time for your enemy to build up as well.

              With Babylon and a Bowmen rush if you are lucky to start near another Civ you can sometimes take them out before they get bows themselves. Bowmen just slaughter Warriors.

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              • #8
                Yeah, NA have some interesting strategies that they can pull off pretty well, but they are all offensive strategies; all someone has to do to screw with them is to get out a couple of early chariots and try to cut them off from metal and choke/pillage them to keep them backward. If NA can hook up metal and get out a spear they can be unstoppable, but that's true of quite a few civs. I'd say they are a upper second tier civ but not in the same league as Khmer, Maya, or the Dutch.
                You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                • #9
                  What, no love for Justinian? The Byzantines have one of the most overpowered UUs in the game, and a UB that lets them do a lot of conquering without suffering too much from war weariness.

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                  • #10
                    If I want to kill an enemy chariot as the NA, I'll build an archer and give it Drill II/Flanking I. Or Combat I/Cover I vs. another archer. Build your cities on hills and with cheap walls you'll never worry about getting attacked. The other thing is you don't have to worry about whether or not you have copper nearby, Dog Soldiers don't need it. That allows you to plan even before you get BW who you want to attack. And Philo helps with any coin/tech problems.

                    Natives ftw
                    I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                    I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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                    • #11
                      So you're going to do what when HA come at you? Archers can surfice against chariots, 2v1 and 5v2 (even with flanking the archers aren't going to get odds on a chariot with combat 1). Spears are necassary to continue to grow and defend against HA, so you can't just ignore metal entirely.
                      You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                      • #12
                        I'm going to have longbows kill the horses (Or, just use my ubercheap archers - 3 + 25% (vs horse) + 50% city (CD1 and archer) = nearly 6, and much cheaper than a horse archer

                        Certainly you need metal, but that's true of almost every civ that's not horse oriented; only mali can really have any chance without metal, and even then it's a tough one. Even the horse-oriented civs will have difficulty against a fully metaled civ who can counter their horses effectively...
                        <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                        I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                        • #13
                          If you're talking about attacking a civ with HAs, i'm not going to. I'm going to attack civs before they have HBR, and sit on their horse tile with a stack of archers.
                          <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                          I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                          • #14
                            I'm going to have longbows kill the horses (Or, just use my ubercheap archers - 3 + 25% (vs horse) + 50% city (CD1 and archer) = nearly 6, and much cheaper than a horse archer


                            Longbows require more beakers to research than HA though. You're right that by the time you get them you are safe though.

                            You could sit in a city with archers and defend, and not die, but then you are going to get the ***** tactic pulled on you and all of your land pillaged, which isn't ideal for winning. Sacrificing loads of archers to kill them 3v1 can work if only a couple of HA are sent at you, but if it's a concerted attack it is alot harder to deal with.

                            Certainly you need metal, but that's true of almost every civ that's not horse oriented; only mali can really have any chance without metal, and even then it's a tough one. Even the horse-oriented civs will have difficulty against a fully metaled civ who can counter their horses effectively...


                            Which is my point about the dog soldier; it's really nice to have to clear out the warriors that n00bs send at you, but you are going to need metal for any other defensive purpose. And so the dog soldier is a double edged blade, good for rushing and clearing out warriors, but for everything else is useless and you are going to want copper anyway, but the NA won't get the benefit of normal axes either.

                            The same argument applies to jags and the Aztecs.
                            You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                            • #15
                              Really, the more I think about it the more I think it's going to be really map dependant; if you worked your way into a position to rush one AI with archers/dogs and oracle fued it would be game over, almost. Which is one the the reasons I like Sitting Bull in SP.

                              In MP he sucks because of the requirement of iron in anc, but in medi he is great because maces and long bows are so close.
                              You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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