America = 20th Century, Rest of World = 21st Century

[FrostyBoy]

Ok, I exaggerated a bit, but hear me out first.



I was always under the impression America was well developed, people were happy, dreams were accessible, and I guess I also expected things to run smoothly, organized, clean, newest technologies would be installed, things would be updated as time passes.


But when I visited Chicago, I felt like I had stepped into the 1980's - and I am not exaggerating that one.

I have stepped into taxi's cleaner in remote parts of Thailand than all the taxi's I used in the 2 weeks I was in Chicago.

Then there are the two trains, the above ground one, which I can't remember the name of, the one that goes around the main part of the city is the shittiest train I have ever been on. Trains of the early 1900's were better than this hunk of ****. Is the whole thing made of steel? I am amazed this piece of rubbish still works, the seating is crap, the design is crap, its noisy as hell, stinks of dead rats and someone shat themselves, electricity flashing every now and then outside the train making you think you're have a spasm, and the stations in the city area - holy crap, I felt like I was in some medieval catacombs of Europe.

The city itself is slow to update, Magnificent Mile was ok at best, the restaurants are nothing to complain about, and in fact, I think that's the only thing Chicago has going for.

Why are things not being upgraded as they are in the rest of the world?

America losing its way

Europe
Modern Asia

[SlowwHand]

I guess you know what whole country to avoid coming to visit, based on a train ride around one city.

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Why are things not being upgraded as they are in the rest of the world?

To drive away Kiwis who whine too much.

[FrostyBoy]

Left is Chicago, Right is Singapore.

I guess a lot of Americans, who don't know Chicago, and know Singapore as some country in Asia or South America or an island of Japan, would assume the left is Singapore and the right is Chicago.

[FrostyBoy]

No Slowwhand, that is obvious, of course I am not going to judge the entire country by one visit to Chicago.

But it gives you the chance to prove to me that other parts of America are developed. But then my question still stands, why is Chicago, one of America's most important cities, stagnant?

[Ming]

Nahhh... The Chicago subway system and EL systems have been in place far longer. Obviously anything built LONG after would look newer and shiny. The cost to upgrade the Chicago system all at one time would be too much for the city to deal with. They are doing upgrades slowly as afordable. But frankly, the old system still works, and there are higher priorities for the city to spend its money on. Some day, we will have the shiney stations, and the now new ones will look old in comparison. That's how it works.

Chicago is a great city. And it will remain great.

[FrostyBoy]

Not quite true Ming.

The going trend nowadays, in the developed countries I have been to anyway, is to constantly upgrade, say every 10 years. Creates jobs, keeps the economy going, people are happier, things move faster and smoother.

But the train that I stepped on in Chicago felt like it was made in 1950's. The taxi's from early 1980's and were never "fixed" up since then.

Sure, I can see that the old system works, but I am not suggesting they reinvent the wheel, but at least upgrade it, just like you upgrade your computer. I think the metro system in Chicago is in major need of upgrading, where is the money, I thought Chicago had plenty to spare?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Ming
Nahhh... The Chicago subway system and EL systems have been in place far longer. Obviously anything built LONG after would look newer and shiny. The cost to upgrade the Chicago system all at one time would be too much for the city to deal with. They are doing upgrades slowly as afordable. But frankly, the old system still works, and there are higher priorities for the city to spend its money on. Some day, we will have the shiney stations, and the now new ones will look old in comparison. That's how it works.

Chicago is a great city. And it will remain great.

what about the dirty taxis and the people who shat themselves?

[Patroklos]

The reason things look like they are from the 70s/80s is because they were built then (incidently when places like Singapore were ghetto riddled hell holes). I am not sure what the expected life span of the system was supposed to be but I am sure 30-40 years was on the low end.

Now that places like Singapore have joined the 20th century (when places like the USA achieved what you have now) of course their new stuff looks newer. And when our stuff reaches the end of its life span and we replace it while yours is just hitting its mid life stage we can all point at you and whine about how archaic your stuff looks.

Incidently, America hasn't had throngs or starving psuedo-slaves working for pennys fo a good 100 years now to build all the shiny stuff most of Asia enjoys.

[Lancer]

It's true Frosty, many of our major cities are the pits. The world is passing us by in this way. Don't know much about Chicago but New York has been abandoned by its wealthy seeking a better life in the suburbs, running from forced bussing of their children to ghetto schools. When the wealthy left the cities started falling into decay and the burbs became fashionable but without the cultural attractions. No Radio City Music Hall in Buttwipe, New Jersey. So we've been passing Hollywood off as America and the world seems to buy it.

[SlowwHand]

DART - Dallas Area Rapid Transit.




Fajitas

[FrostyBoy]

That's what I suspected Lancer, what rich person would want to raise their family in cities like those, when they can raise them in sunnylandville with green pastures and top rated schools? I know I would.

And that is the sad thing, has America forgotten its big cities? Are they slowly being handed over to foriegners, looking for a job, but don't care of the city's future?

Patroklos, I already explained myself in the post above you, the going trend these days is to upgrade every 10 years, Singapore does an even better job at it - every 5 years and it seems to be growing exponentially.


Expect a movie in 20 years time: The Forgotten America

[Aeson]

Americans mostly care about how shiney their car is, not how shiney their public transportation is.

[FrostyBoy]

Sloww, is that westmoreland or wastemoreland?

[Ming]

The new train lines that have been built are much better. As things wear down, they get replaced.

As far as taxi's go... many are owned by individuals and a few cab companies. None are owned by the city. I've been in new cabs and old cabs. And even the old cabs truly aren't that old... they just have taken a beating with all the miles they have gone.

The City is constantly upgrading the things that are the most desperate for repair. But you seem to think that money grows on trees... It doesn't, it comes out of the tax payers pockets. No major city in America has "tons of money to spare"

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Left is Chicago, Right is Singapore.

Oh, aren't you smart.

[Lancer]

There's some big modern cities in Texas and Florida, then there's San Francisco out west, maybe a few more that I don't know about. The rest everyone would rather forget, except the folks that still live there. Rue the day you have to go to Newark airport. Newark used to be nice. Now the hotels around the airport are like armed camps. Gangs, drug dealers and pimps patrol the streets looking for people to do harm to each in their way. It's kind of like I've heard Paris is fast becoming.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
The going trend nowadays, in the developed countries I have been to anyway, is to constantly upgrade, say every 10 years.

I don't think you've been many places, or intelligent ones. Every 10 years to renovate subway stations (as per your OP) completely? That's just a waste of money.

[Will9]

Originally posted by Aeson
Americans mostly care about how shiney their car is, not how shiney their public transportation is.

I thought this common knowledge around the world already.

[q=frostyboy]And that is the sad thing, has America forgotten its big cities? Are they slowly being handed over to foriegners, looking for a job, but don't care of the city's future?[/q]

Americans just don't like living in cities. Why live in the cramped city when you could live in the suburbs?

[FrostyBoy]

Let's play a game.

Top is Singapore, bottom Chicago.

Singapore: Spot a car made in the 80's

Chicago: Spot a car made in the 90's.

[Wezil]

: popcorn :

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Will
I thought this common knowledge around the world already.

You'd think so, but this thread is here...

[FrostyBoy]

Asher, that is not Singapore. Feel smart now?


Also, I have been to many developed countries and cities, and under developed ones too.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Top is Singapore, bottom Chicago.

Um... are you sure?

Last I checked we drove on the right side of the road.

[Lancer]

Americans love living in cities. A clean, functioning city full of peaceful civic minded people is an attraction to many. Our cities however have been abandoned by anyone with money enough to leave because there are none of the above to be found in them anymore because we had to address the inequalities in education through forced bussing. I was there, I saw the stampede to the burbs, I was part of that. After that New York just about went bankrupt. Funny world. Destroyed the cities and you still can't get a decent education there. That was the big liberal effort of the 70s.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Aeson
Um... are you sure?

Last I checked we drove on the right side of the road.

[Ming]

Yeah... I thought that was pretty funny too, especially since he pointed at Asher's pictures

[FrostyBoy]

Originally posted by Asher

I don't think you've been many places, or intelligent ones. Every 10 years to renovate subway stations (as per your OP) completely? That's just a waste of money.

Upgrade does not mean 100% upgrade, it just means adding something new or replacing something old. Like your computer. You want more ram, add more ram, you don't have to change the whole system to do so.

For example, in Singapore, in the past year or so, and this year, ALL MRT stations have elevators installed. Before, only a few had them. In 5 years time, perhaps all card readers will change, or plants will be installed, or better lighting.

It's an on going thing, and it's good, like I stated before, it creates jobs, keeps the economy on the move, people are happier and things run smoother.

[Patroklos]

Patroklos, I already explained myself in the post above you, the going trend these days is to upgrade every 10 years, Singapore does an even better job at it - every 5 years and it seems to be growing exponentially.

I doubt that is correct, feel free to back it up. And in any case, where the hell else is Singapore going to build if not on top of itself.



Above, the Singapore metro owned by what many would say is not our best urban center.

[FrostyBoy]

Hmm.. perhaps the image had been flipped? It does kinda look like chicago. I better check again. Anyway my point is that Chicago barely has any modern cars - and clean ones at that.

You will be hard pressed to find a car older than 10 years in Singapore, and pretty much impossible to find a dirty one.


edit: Ok that image of the cars is London, no wonder that red bus had me confused.