Finally! An alternative for Afghan poppy growers

[Wezil]

KABUL - The fields of Balkh province in northern Afghanistan are free of opium poppies this year.

It's a success touted often by Afghan and international officials. But one look at some fields uncovers an emerging drug problem. Three-metre-tall cannabis plants flourish where poppy plants used to grow.

The crop - the source of both marijuana and hashish - can be just as profitable as opium but draws none of the scrutiny from Afghan officials.

The UN Office on Drugs and Crime estimates that cannabis cultivation rose 40 per cent in Afghanistan this year and is being grown in at least 18 of Afghanistan's 34 provinces.

The UN report singles out Balkh as a "leading example" of an opium-free province, saying other areas should follow "the model of this northern region where leadership, incentives and security have led farmers to turn their backs on opium."

However, another section of the report says the increase in marijuana cultivation "gives cause for concern."


Mohammad Alam, a local farmer, said he knows it's illegal to grow cannabis but he must do so to feed his children.

"The government cannot provide a good market for other crops like cotton, watermelon and vegetables, so I have to grow marijuana instead of poppy," he said.

Drug dealers from the southern poppy-growing provinces of Kandahar and Helmand travel north to buy marijuana and take it to Pakistan, Alam said.

Gen. Khodaidad, Afghanistan's acting counter-narcotics minister, said the government doesn't yet have a good handle on marijuana.

"This is also a big problem for Afghanistan," said Khodaidad, who like many Afghans uses one name. "It is very cheap. Hashish is more harmful (than poppies) to the people of Afghanistan."

The UN said cannabis yields around twice the quantity of drug per hectare as opium poppies and requires less investment.

The UN drug report also estimated that farmers growing cannabis could earn the same amount as opium farmers.

"As a consequence, farmers who do not cultivate opium poppy may turn to cannabis cultivation," the report said.

Afghanistan already grows some 93 per cent of the world's opium.

Akbar Khan, a 35-year-old farmer from Balkh province, said that if legal crops could command higher prices, farmers would grow those.

"We know marijuana is an illegal crop, but we are very poor and we have to grow it to help our families survive," he said. "I don't like growing poppy or marijuana. I don't want people to become addicted to these things, but I have to feed my children and I have no other way."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terr...689656-ap.html

Another decade of occupation and we should have them up to 100%.

[Wezil]

Forgot the pic.

[Imran Siddiqui]

[Zkribbler]

[Elok]

Balkh...as in Zoroaster? Anyway, my dad suggests cocaine would grow well there too. High altitudes. Hopefully they'll import some new talent to teach them to cook up crystal meth and other synthetics from readily available ingredients, and Afghanistan will be the world's one-stop drug shop.

[Wezil]

I for one support this new direction. I may even start supporting the mission now that we are seeing some tangible results.

[DinoDoc]

Rufus should be entertained during his stint in country.

[Zkribbler]

We need to send our troop flame throwers. They can attack from down wind.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Wezil
Another decade of occupation and we should have them up to 100%.

Occupation?

[Wezil]

Yep.

Go ahead and tell us how this mission is a success.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Wezil
Yep.

Go ahead and tell us how this mission is a success.

Not a success /= occupation

In large part the mission is under stress PRECISELY due to the mistakes of the SOVEREIGN Afghan govt.

Also due to the failure of the international community to come through on promise relative to economic development.

I doubt very much that withdrawl by those few countries with fighting troops on the ground would improve things. But keeping troops on the ground is certainly painful, and Afghanistan certainly must feel a lot more painful for folks for whom an increased commitment to Afghanistan is not a justification for drawdown in Iraq. So if talking about cannibis cultivation in Balkh makes you feel better about bringing your troops home, I cant really blame you. At least Canada, we can be reasonably sure, will let in all the Afghan refugees who come fleeing after the Kabul govt falls.

[Wezil]

edit -

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Not a success /= occupation

Granted. It's just that you and I have seen this movie before. I thought we might speed things up and jump forward a few scenes.

Wrt "occupation". I'm not into the same old argument with you on this. I know and respect your position but we disagree. Let's try it this way - If Karzai's government were to tell us (the West) to leave immediately, would we? If you say yes I will accuse you of being disingenuous. If you say no...


As to the strawmen,

In large part the mission is under stress PRECISELY due to the mistakes of the SOVEREIGN Afghan govt.

A government comprised of Karzai and other western lackies. Our chosen ones doing our bidding which of course leads to Karzai's problems with drug issues and his constant pleas to the US to quit bombing the **** out of civilians. Pleas that go ignored b/c he's not really in charge. Also, notice the distinct absense of Taliban representation in the government. They weren't acceptable to us.

Also due to the failure of the international community to come through on promise relative to economic development.

It's hard to do reconstruction when the locals are trying to blow you up. See Iraq.

I doubt very much that withdrawl by those few countries with fighting troops on the ground would improve things.

I guess it would depend on your definition of "improve". Will they become "West friendly". Highly unlikely as the Taliban would in all probability return to power.

But keeping troops on the ground is certainly painful, and Afghanistan certainly must feel a lot more painful for folks for whom an increased commitment to Afghanistan is not a justification for drawdown in Iraq.

I'll be honest. I haven't a clue what your point is here.

So if talking about cannibis cultivation in Balkh makes you feel better about bringing your troops home, I cant really blame you.

? Quite frankly I don't give a damn about pot growing in Afghanistan or anywhere else. I think our troops should come home for several reasons but cannabis isn't one of them.

At least Canada, we can be reasonably sure, will let in all the Afghan refugees who come fleeing after the Kabul govt falls.

"All"? Why should we be responsible for any quite frankly? I/we owe Afghanistan nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Afghistan government harbored the people that attacked us (the West). Not the other way around.

That said, as I'm sure you know, Canada has had an extremely wide immigration/refugee door for a very long time now. I see no reason why Afghani's will be treated any different. We've already started as I can attest first hand. My local sub shop is Afghani owned and operated.

[Wezil]

*bump* (since my edit didn't...)

[DinoDoc]

You do know that Afghanistan isn't the shithole Iraq is, right? Dispite the efforts of our cowardly allies.

[Wezil]

Like Iraq, it has some parts better than others.

edit - Define "shithole"? For us or them?

[LordShiva]

Burmese poppy growers?

[Wezil]

Don't try being a grammar Nazi with me. You won't be able to keep up.

[Wezil]

This thread has taken a tragic turn toward seriousness.

We need more pics.

[Berzerker]

thats beautiful....man

[C0ckney]

i feel we all should be doing more to help poor afghan farmers.

[Wezil]

I think we should buy their weed.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

You know, if we legalized pot, slapped a decent tax on it, and gave preferred trading partner status to Afghanistan, we could solve more problems at once then any action in the history of the US government.

[Wezil]

That would make too much sense Rufus.

Besides, it might put BC pot growers out of business.

[Patroklos]

You know, if we legalized pot, slapped a decent tax on it, and gave preferred trading partner status to Afghanistan, we could solve more problems at once then any action in the history of the US government.

Stop trying to steal my presidential platform

[Thoth]

Originally posted by Wezil
That would make too much sense Rufus.

Besides, it might put BC pot growers out of business.

No problem. We don't have a free trade agreement with Afghanistan so we just slap some punitive damages on the cheap Afghan smoke, and the BC growers can go on pumping out overpriced, overchemicaled crap.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Wezil
I think we should buy their weed.

Ours is a whole lot better

Spec.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Wezil
That would make too much sense Rufus.

Besides, it might put BC pot growers out of business.

The best weed comes from basements.

Spec.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Spec

The best weed comes from basements.

Spec.

[Wezil]

.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Wezil

edit -



Granted. It's just that you and I have seen this movie before. I thought we might speed things up and jump forward a few scenes.

Wrt "occupation". I'm not into the same old argument with you on this. I know and respect your position but we disagree. Let's try it this way - If Karzai's government were to tell us (the West) to leave immediately, would we? If you say yes I will accuse you of being disingenuous. If you say no...

Id like to know the circumstances that led to that. Not just an assertion out of the blue that hed do that for no particular reason, with no discussion of the political context. If he DID ask us to leave, under circumstances of a broad domestic consensus to do so, and without enabling sanctuary for AQ, I think it would be extremely difficult for us to stay.

If he did so on the basis of an agreement with the Taliban that enable all or part of Afghanistan to be a haven for AQ, then we would not leave. But then if ANY state where we currently have troops, were to declare itself a haven for AQ, I would have trouble seeing us not keeping troops there.

As to the strawmen,

In large part the mission is under stress PRECISELY due to the mistakes of the SOVEREIGN Afghan govt.

A government comprised of Karzai and other western lackies. Our chosen ones doing our bidding which of course leads to Karzai's problems with drug issues and his constant pleas to the US to quit bombing the **** out of civilians. Pleas that go ignored b/c he's not really in charge. Also, notice the distinct absense of Taliban representation in the government. They weren't acceptable to us.

They also werent acceptable to the former Northern Alliance elements, who are in fact the strongest political opposition to Kharzai, and who have found Kharzai to be too soft on ex-Taliban. AFAICT, between the ex NA types on the one side, and the Pashtuns (including guys whod collaborated with the Taliban) on the other, my impression is that Kharzai and the pro-Western Kabul types were about as close to the Afghan center as you could find.

Naturally when there are two allies, and the fighting is happening on the soil of one, there are going to be disagreements about strategy and tactics. And he cant do much to stop us, cause if he does, we can leave, which is still a bigger threat to him, than to us. And will be until the Afghan national army is strong enough to fight the Taliban on its own.

Also due to the failure of the international community to come through on promise relative to economic development.

It's hard to do reconstruction when the locals are trying to blow you up. See Iraq.

In fact much of Afghanistan, especially the north, is fairly safe. The international community has simply failed.

I doubt very much that withdrawl by those few countries with fighting troops on the ground would improve things.

I guess it would depend on your definition of "improve". Will they become "West friendly". Highly unlikely as the Taliban would in all probability return to power.

I think the Taliban returning to power would be disaster for 80% of Afghans, and an unmitigated disaster for about 50% of Afghans. And virtually the end of the world, for about 20% of Afghans.

Have you ever read The Kite Runner, by Khalid Husseini?

But keeping troops on the ground is certainly painful, and Afghanistan certainly must feel a lot more painful for folks for whom an increased commitment to Afghanistan is not a justification for drawdown in Iraq.

I'll be honest. I haven't a clue what your point is here.

Western troops are dying, its natural to want to get out. Body bags going back to Toronto and Vancouver. Here in the USA, theres no pressure to get out of Afghan, cause to the center left, Afghanistan is the "good war", the one thats being lost because the eevil neocons went into Iraq. The implicit (and sometimes explicit) arguement is made that one of the advantages of withdrawl from Iraq, is that we could increase the number of troops and other resources in Afghanistan where the "real" war on terror is being fought. In that context no one serious on the left of USA politics talks about Afghanistan the way many Canadians routinely do. I have little doubt, thought, that were it not for that historical quirk, thered be Americans complaining about the casualty toll in Afghanistan.

"All"? Why should we be responsible for any quite frankly? I/we owe Afghanistan nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Afghistan government harbored the people that attacked us (the West). Not the other way around.

You will take people in, whether you owe them anything or not, cause you always do. What do you owe the people of Somalia? That they suffered? The people of Afghanistan suffered as much. I also think we in the West owe them something for the fall of the USSR, and for our neglect in the years that followed, which led to the rise of the Taliban. But again, that may play differently in Canada than it does in the US.

That said, as I'm sure you know, Canada has had an extremely wide immigration/refugee door for a very long time now. I see no reason why Afghani's will be treated any different. We've already started as I can attest first hand. My local sub shop is Afghani owned and operated.

Thats what I was referring to.


We have lots of afghan owned businesses where I live, but they are mainly folks who left Afghanistan BEFORE 9/11. Some in fact went back to Afghanistan to rebuild it.