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  • Aggressive AI...bonuses too?

    Ok, I've now started 4 games, Aggressive AI, on Monarch difficulty. Here's what I don't understand.

    I'm taking Financial civs, and in my last game, due to being whipped in the previous 3 games, I went with Hannibal (Fin/Cha). I took this as a good financial, with good militaristic trait on top. I spam cottages early wherever makes sense, and hook up specials as soon as possible to generate additional income. I get up to 5 cities fairly quickly, and can only keep tech slider at 60-70% with those cities (this is pre-markets, grocers, etc). But the other AIs have as many as 8-10 cities, double what I have - the top 3 civs have 10 cities each, and they are Isabella, Hatty, and Ghandi - none of which are financial or even organized. How are they even able to run so many cities without financial or organized, and still be even remotely competitive in tech? And they've got a larger military as well.

    Is Aggressive AI simply that? Or is it possible that they got other "bonuses"? Four games on Agg AI is a small sample, but I just can't reconcile how non financial civs can have so large an empire and still be near the top of the tech pile when I'm running a financial civ, only half the cities, and struggling to keep up in tech.

  • #2
    Agressive AI makes them build more troops and be more likely to use war-there are no bonuses. I have been playing alot of Agg AI after playing normal AI. I am only running prince but i havnt noticed any real pickup in strength like that. Maybe the top guys are bullying for techs\money, or something else is going on?
    if you want to stop terrorism; stop participating in it

    ''Oh,Commissar,if we could put the potatoes in one pile,they would reach the foot of God''.But,replied the commissar,''This is the Soviet Union.There is no God''.''Thats all right'' said the worker,''There are no potatoes''

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    • #3
      More cities means faster research.

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      • #4
        I think the OP is saying more cities would equal slower research due to costs(but ten isnt that much for cost is it? )
        if you want to stop terrorism; stop participating in it

        ''Oh,Commissar,if we could put the potatoes in one pile,they would reach the foot of God''.But,replied the commissar,''This is the Soviet Union.There is no God''.''Thats all right'' said the worker,''There are no potatoes''

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        • #5
          More cities means faster research, as long as you aren't crippled economically. I guess that's my main point. HOw are non-financial civs carrying 10 cities, and staying out in front in tech when a financial civ (me) has 5 cities, and has to keep tech at 70% and is pulling middle of the pack in tech.

          I'm not saying there are bonuses for sure, I'm just not clear how - at this stage of the game before the AIs could get up an infrastructure of courthouses, markets, grocers, etc - they're able to thrive with so many cities not having the Financial trait.

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          • #6
            Specialists, perhaps?

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            • #7
              The bonuses the AI gets for you being on Monarch level is quite enough of a boost for them to support those cities while you struggle. They also tech-whore like crazy with eachother and leave you out of any significant part of the loop. They leave their slider on 40% Science and spam military units like there is no tomorrow.

              Any level above Noble you play against the penalties NOT against the AI.
              Order of the Fly
              Those that cannot curse, cannot heal.

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              • #8
                (mistake - wrong thread)
                Clash of Civilization team member
                (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BigWilly1974
                  More cities means faster research, as long as you aren't crippled economically. I guess that's my main point. HOw are non-financial civs carrying 10 cities, and staying out in front in tech when a financial civ (me) has 5 cities, and has to keep tech at 70% and is pulling middle of the pack in tech.

                  I'm not saying there are bonuses for sure, I'm just not clear how - at this stage of the game before the AIs could get up an infrastructure of courthouses, markets, grocers, etc - they're able to thrive with so many cities not having the Financial trait.
                  It's possibly specialist usage.

                  You can lightbulb a tech like Philosophy and trade it for Civil Service and Machinery.

                  I mean good players easily out-tech the Monarch AI, there's a lot of tricks. The AI knows a good number of those tricks.

                  Try this strategy:
                  Choose a Philosophical Leader, like Alexander.

                  Run 2 Scientists - doesn't have to be your capital - a second city with a good food special is ideal.
                  Use the first scientist to build an Academy in your capital, settle all future ones in your capital.

                  Research Code of Laws quite promptly, preferably in time to bag Conf, with the 2 scientists and the Academy this should be doable.

                  Switch to Caste System, and run even more scientists if you can. Ideally you want to be running 3-6 scientists over your empire.

                  Other than the scientists, don't bother with a lot of effort towards research, just focus on food (mostly specials) and production (mostly mines, but workshops can be okay too). This production will let you expand rapidly and also train a lot of units.

                  It doesn't matter if you drop down to 10% research, even 0% is fine, as long as your armies aren't on strike. The scientists and settled Great Scientists will keep the research going. With this strategy you don't burn any GP's lightbulbing techs, you just settle the lot. As techs like Civil Service and Currency roll in (and you can't stop the tech coming with half a dozen settled GS's!) your economy will stay afloat, even with only minimal infrastructure like Courthouses.

                  There are also other strategies which let you maintain large empires and armies while having good tech pace. Most involve using Great People in some way.

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                  • #10
                    well, i'll be damned. so thats how the AI does it then. I will try this tactic...
                    Order of the Fly
                    Those that cannot curse, cannot heal.

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                    • #11
                      Wow, Blake, you've given me something to think about with that post. Thanks, I'll have to try it out.

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                      • #12
                        One further question for Blake or others:

                        If the capital is to be a GP specialized city, would you tend to build farms or cottages around the capital? I've always treated the capital as a commerce city, and built as many cottages as possible...but I'm guessing food may be more critical so you can run more specialists to try and pop more GP?

                        Presumably this would mean another city would have to be dedicated to being a income city, stacked with cottages?

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                        • #13
                          Blake was saying Settle all GREAT Scientists in your capital. He wasn't "necessarily" saying to have lots of science specialists in your capital.

                          You could go either way, or farm/growth and later switch to cottages (but not TOO much later, since they need time to grow to towns, of course).

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                          • #14
                            Capital generally should be a hammer/commerce city if you can (one or the other prominently, and the other as a secondary), if you're going to run bureaucracy as many people do. Never make your capital a GP city if you run Bureaucracy.

                            However, settling in your capital is a different ball of wax

                            GP cities are always food cities first and foremost, either with plenty of food bonus tiles, or lots of farms.
                            <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                            I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                            • #15
                              Never make your capital a GP city if you run Bureaucracy.
                              This sums it up quite well. Although noting there ARE valid strategies which run vassalage all the time! But since you have an Academy in your capital it's probably better to use higher yielding cottages than lower yielding specialists.

                              The important thing here is that Bureaucracy multiplies raw commerce and hammers. This means it DOES boost the hammers from engineers and priests and great engineers, great prophets and great priests, but it does not increase the commerce output of any specialist type.

                              There is one other thing worth noting.

                              Your LARGEST coastal city gets the best trade routes. If you ensure your capital is the largest coastal city, it'll get the biggest trade routes, and that can mean about 20 extra commerce over the next best city, which put through bureaucracy and an academy and oxfords means A LOT of extra commerce. For this reason it can be worth growing your capital massive - making it more of a commerce city than a hammer city (one of the most important decisions here being Windmills vs Mines, as a rule cottages tend to beat farms).

                              However for landlocked capitals there is little reason to go with commerce rather than hammers. I personally prefer hammer capitals but I think most people prefer commerce capitals. Both work well. The hammer capital obviously gives you tremendous ability to build wonders but the commerce capital will help you get those techs a bit faster.

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