GENERAL: E-Cafe III

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by HuangShang
OT, but I was wondering what some stuff in const.txt mean.

Just what are elite and leader units like? I am going to test this for sure, but an explanation would help.

An elite unit basically has the veteran coeff but twice. the leader unit code works but we dont have a leader unit in game yet so it wont createa great leader. if you wnat to create one got to units.txt but your unit must have the cantbuild AND leader lines added. Then you can make it a unit with advance attack or a cleric or a corporation or whatever. I think in the next release I will add one to the AE mod (unless people think it should be in the stabard game). also if you add one make sure you makethe percent values greater than zero (i.e. 0.1)

What is RAIL_LAUNCH_POLLUTION? Is it from space transport?

not sure what it does I'll have to see where/if its implemented

What does PIRACY_KILLS_TRADER_CHANCE do when triggered?

I think its in the code, I think it adds a chance that piracy breaks the trade route

and since there is a MONOPOLY_THRESHOLD, what is the concept of monopoly and why haven't I ever heard of it.

i think it partially implemented, and from ctp1, it was something where if you get all of a type of good you get a bonus. if people are interested we can look into making something out of it.

[cap601]

All 3 of those appear to be from CTP1. RAIL_LAUNCH_POLLUTION is probably the pollution when you launched a unit into space. I don't know about the others.

[Protra3211]

I tried my hand at tweaking the strategies and goals filesa.
Worked out alright but still not where it should be.Needs to be tweaked so that the AI will close ranks and make expansion harder for human player.Now of course the mods had the DiffDB file set so the AI could produce more units at a faster rate.Which gave the AI a beter chance of defending itself..Higher garrison force.Which might need to be looked at again as Apolyton mod setting for DiffDB should be the standard.Some tweaking of diplomacy files would make the AI sense danger sooner so as not to be so easy to load up at the borders and allow easy capture of cities -share continet regard cost and other settings might be tweaked.Now most of this has be done in the mods.
But no sense of reinventing the wheel. But overall the playtest feels less scripted.
How far could we go with the AI?The more space the AI can control(units patroling borders -goals and strategies ) and is able to defend its cities( garrison force) the longer the AI can compete with us.Now there are other options for the AI a frenzy attack .While we are busy in one war the AI sends many units to cities with low defense.Forcing a retreat.Its not easy figure out all the angles.Its not like chess where counter tactics are easy to work out. But as things are its too easy to out play the AI.

[Ekmek]

well I almost have a working cityexpansion and city slum code working in my next revision (not released yet).

I still want to to add the listbox to orders and tileimps but havent started

I attempted some mergecivs code but that has comeout to well.

I'll admit though I'm rapidly losing interest in Ctp2 and moving to Civ4BTS. but since Dale hasnt done his stack for it I maybe going off to code that. But I'm sticking to my promise. I'll keep working Ctp2 through october.

Martin I've seen you have slowed down as well. are you losing interest?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by E
Martin I've seen you have slowed down as well. are you losing interest?

Well, it is rather a question of time and of course the are a lot of other things you can do than modifying games, like doing some real life stuff or playing games.

-Martin

[Ekmek]

Its just under three weeks until ctp2 source code birthday. Any plans?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by E
Its just under three weeks until ctp2 source code birthday. Any plans?

Well, what about some HotSeat and PBEM human to human diplomacy.

At least I can already send proposals between human players and they can also accept them, but there is still some work to do, in the way to it I made the NewProposal slic event do what it is supposed to do: Sending new proposals

-Martin

[Ekmek]

I'd like to get listboxes for tileimps and orders done. But my last experience with civs was brutal. it may take a while.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

Well, what about some HotSeat and PBEM human to human diplomacy.

At least I can already send proposals between human players and they can also accept them, but there is still some work to do, in the way to it I made the NewProposal slic event do what it is supposed to do: Sending new proposals

-Martin

Wow, this would be great if you can get it fully working Martin. IIRC though isn't there other bugs left in PBEM?

[Protra3211]

What about a tournament using the playtest and a new build.I recall the early ones using Apolyton mod went over well.Might bring some of the older players back one last time.
The key is all files are easy to zip in.There is no fuss to setup.The only thing would be to ajust DiffDB file to make for a harder game.
Been busy with things.But feel the need for a CtP2 game agian. I did try a Civ4demo Charlemange.Not bad but feel the game is very busy.Like the laid back feel of CtP2.Not as many civs pestering you almost every turn at the diplomatic screen.But that was demo and might be better playing on a large map.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Wow, this would be great if you can get it fully working Martin.

So far I have it fully working in HotSeat mode, if the BeginTurn event fires as I suppose namely afterwards loading the PBEM savegame human to human diplomacy should also work in PBEM mode.

Originally posted by Maquiladora
IIRC though isn't there other bugs left in PBEM?

I don't know, except for the 60 HotSeat test turns I cannot tell you more. I know that John did some fixing for PBEM.

Anyway a little AI play test session and I should be able to release a new playtest version, so that we can figure out whether human to human diplomacy also works in PBEM mode.

-Martin

[Protra3211]

While watting for code repairs to diplomacy I have been playing Apolyton + Good mod.
For soom reason never tried both together.Great AI updates -AI tactics are sharp and keep you busy on defense.Was beaten on very hard.
What seems to be the problem is that almost all AI factions are hard to deal with using diplomacy.
Bribe after gold bribe does little.In no time your broke and they are moving in for the kill.I counted three 12 stacks of units moving in for the kill and was unable to stop it. Has anyone been able to make diplomacy work for them using this mod.
I had the smallest army of all AI nations,Is this a factor ?

[Martin Gühmann]

Happy new year!






-Martin

[Maquiladora]

Happy new year

[Maquiladora]

I sent a news item yesterday about the latest playtest to the civgroup news, but it hasn't been upped yet. I'm not trying to rush anyone, just wondering who does the check for our news items? As I could possibly help with that, to get some more regualr news items for CtP2 up.

Also is the process different for CtP2 sourcecode civgroup news and regular CtP2 news?

[Maquiladora]

Thanks whoever put the news item up.

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
I sent a news item yesterday about the latest playtest to the civgroup news, but it hasn't been upped yet. I'm not trying to rush anyone, just wondering who does the check for our news items? As I could possibly help with that, to get some more regualr news items for CtP2 up.

Also is the process different for CtP2 sourcecode civgroup news and regular CtP2 news?

locutus still manages that. afaik I can immediately post stuff to civgroups sourcecode news but the ctp2 section is still Locutus's

[Maquiladora]

OK thanks for putting up the Civgroup news E.

To be honest I think Civgroup news is enough for this kind of smaller news anyway. Although I had considered a major news item about (as far as I can tell) fully working PBEM/Hotseat.

[HuangShang]

Hey yea I can help with that too but I don't have legitimate internet for another week.

[Protra3211]

Hello.Been away for a bit.Had computor problems .The lastest playtest is 12/14/07 -am I right ?
Downloading now and should be ready soon.One thing that I feel needs improvement is diplomacy.The AI in the last playtest was to easy to get a peace treaty with no matter the personality.Just too passive.Even the 1.11 version was more aggressive and kept a cold war stance for awhile.Maybe a tweak up in the Diplomacy text file found in aidata file group might help.
Something along the line of the Apolyton pack version but without Diplomod as the code update for AI to AI diplomacy keeps it fron becoming a warfest.Might make the AI smarter and able to watch out for its own intrests.Less prone to simple bribes.Also there are settings in that file the help warn the AI that your pliing up on its border for attack-milatry safety event-.
Will try this first and report how it worked out.One last thing -in Stratgies file we already raised the attack goal to 72000.Maybe the seige goal should be tweaked up to 7000 - from 6000 which would help improve AI tactics along the lines of the latest mods
Again I would do work and see how the AI holds up.
I know we dont want to copy the mods in every detail.But at some ponits there are things that make sense for a better game.

[Maquiladora]

Yeah the last release was on 14th Dec 2007.

Protra, if you find some good settings you should submit them for the next release. At least put them in the AE_Mod folder so we can all try.

[Protra3211]

Hello Maquiladora.Added updated files in the playtest section.A Goals and Strategies file -miner tweaks -more information is posted.

[Protra3211]

Was looking over the Revision Reports and seems to have many improvements how the AI handles its units.
Looks very intresting indeed.
The playtest updates have helped as the AI tends to feed more units into its cities near the border.AI is holding on to weaker cities longer which makes for a harder game.
Just a side note:Have you ever looked into the code for the Breakagreement diplomacy option?I know it does not work but could that be converted to something else or is the too hard coded for that?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Protra3211
The playtest updates have helped as the AI tends to feed more units into its cities near the border.AI is holding on to weaker cities longer which makes for a harder game.

Not only that, it puts more units into all its cities as garrison. This means it build less other stuff, and has no units for attack. So the AI does not do much conquest if at all.

Originally posted by Protra3211
Just a side note:Have you ever looked into the code for the Breakagreement diplomacy option?I know it does not work but could that be converted to something else or is the too hard coded for that?

No, I haven't. The only problem is that it would need some work to dive into it. And now my priority is the AI at tasking and building its units. Unfortunately I have already used too much time for that.

-Martin

[Protra3211]

Your right Martin about the the AI is not setting up attacks for conquest.Maybe we should rethink the Goals and Startgies files. I know you have worked on this game a long time and know what would work best.
So we would follow your lead.That would of course include E as well.
One thing I find intresting about the AI in a game im playing. The strongest AI seems to like to expand by means of war against other AI faction on their border.
But are weak against the human player.
Another thing -once I declare war with the AI,it will give cease fire treaties to AI factions on their border.Seems to know that a 2 front war will weaken them.Has happened more than once. The AI diplomacy has changed.If your not a threat it seems you get get a peace treaty with any civ that has a aggressive personalities.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Protra3211
Maybe we should rethink the Goals and Startgies files.

We can tweak as long as we want these files, but it doesn't help if we don't fix the problems from the source code, for instance we have to make sure that the AI moves its units into its transports properly. Tasks its units once they have been created and not one turn later. Change their government on the same turn when a new one is available and not one turn later.

- Martin

[Ekmek]

Martin, Have you looke dinto the Civ4 SDk to get an idea how transporters are used there. I've faced many sea invasions in that one.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by E
Martin, Have you looke dinto the Civ4 SDk to get an idea how transporters are used there. I've faced many sea invasions in that one.

No, I just look into how the transporters were used in CTP2, and all I can say is that they just implemented the stuff and never checked whether it really worked by watching the AI play, although they had a chat window command: /attach n were n in the number of the player you want to turn into a robot. Actually this command was broken, so noone turned the visible player into a robot and checked what happened.

-Martin

[Protra3211]

Hello E.So you have been playing Civ 4.Been thinking of getting the game as well.Have the demo-not bad but I like the way CtP2 has its playing area setup.Like Ages of Empire plenty pf room to roam and explore.
Been giving Supreme Ruler 2010 a try.A updated version is due out in May,SR 2020.put out by Paradox.Might want to look into it.It has elements of civilization,sim city,and Heats of Iron2.Has been given good reviews but its complex-next version will have less micro- management.

[Ekmek]

I've been playing, and doing graphics, for Civ4BTS. Dale has introduced stack combat and in my own mod (not posted anywhere) I made workers killed after they build certain improvements. It makes it close to PW. The other option is that Firaxis implemented a gold cost for building improvemens so you can do a lot of CTP2-like stuff and deal with a decent AI. I'm liking it. I would like to add a lawyer unit that kicks out corporations but I haven't really gotten into python.