Moving up a level...

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Alright, I can kick the AIs ass on Noble fairly thoroughly. I'm ready for something tougher. I'm thinking of skipping Prince and going straight to Monarch, so that I'll be forced to abandon all my bad habits instead of just some of them. (And if I get my lunch handed to me a few times, Prince will seem that much easier when I retreat ignominiously to that level.)

My question: What settings (I have the vanilla game, not Warlords) should I use to make the transition easier? I normally play on big maps, but will that just make it easier for the AI to expand while I'm constrained by cashflow considerations?

My typical gameplay style is to get 4-6 cities down fairly fast, have one early war for some lebensraum, and settle into builder mode with 8-12 cities until Cannons/gunpowder (and enough of an economy to pay for my conquests). I'm a cottage spammer and do a pretty lousy job of focused GP generation (my GP cities are always polluted with undesirable GP points, in other words). I'm fairly adept at slaving, but am not much one for slingshots.

I figured Rome for the Praetorians, but suggestions as to map size/type/game speed/number of AI/etc are what I'm looking for. Suggestions as to a better Civ to play are welcome, too.

[Solver]

Don't skip straight to Monarch. Instead, play a tougher Prince game - that is, Prince while NOT playing Rome, perhaps Highlands or Lakes as a harder map type.

The Prince-Monarch jump is a fairly big one. The AI gets a free Worker and some real bonuses on Monarch, so even someone who's comfortable with Prince can get his ass kicked at Monarch easily. I'd recommend you try a couple Prince games first

[LDiCesare]

I concur with Solver. The difference between Prince and Monarch is a very big one. Take a few Prince games before.
I couldn't play big maps till recently so I can't really comment on these. I find Inner Sea/Mediterranean type maps rather hard myself so you may give that a shot. Highlands is definitely a hard map type but I find it too ugly for my taste.

[DaveV]

I like highlands. You'll get a chance to see the higher-level barbs at work, the AIs probably won't be able to box you in at the start, and you don't need to worry about naval stuff. I like Russia (Catherine) or the Incas - financial can really help bring enough commerce so you can do at least a little research. Aggressive is handy for fighting off the barbs (and, later, the AIs), and Creative is good for staking out some land. The starts can vary tremendously in quality, though - you might start in the middle of tundra or the middle of jungle.

[mkorin]

I play a Prince until I am destorying everything, level up to Monarch, realize I'm getting my a## handed to me and I am no longer enjoying the game, thus I go back down to Prince and try new strategies until I'm ready again. Going to try the jump again, next week. You'd be nuts if you go from Noble to Warlord.

Mike

[Pinchak]

For higher level single player games I find using Washington helpful.

His traits (carasmatic and expansive) give free happy faces and health, which actually becomes an issue at the higher levels fairly early on.

[Robert Plomp]

Ah, c'mon, people should take much larger steps!
It doesn't matter if he loses big time a few times on Monarch. You learn more from losing games then from winning games.

I play at Immortal level only because I dared to play games where I lost all the time. Playing games where you win eitherd easy or barely aren't fun. It's much more fun if the game is really challenging.

I'd say: move to Emperor

[LDiCesare]

Washington helpful.

His traits (carasmatic and expansive)

Not in vanilla. Charismatic is Warlords only. Still, Washington is nice in Vanilla too.
CyberShy: Some of us get beaten on Monarch, I don't need immortal to lose.

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
Alright, I can kick the AIs ass on Noble fairly thoroughly. I'm ready for something tougher. I'm thinking of skipping Prince and going straight to Monarch, so that I'll be forced to abandon all my bad habits instead of just some of them. (And if I get my lunch handed to me a few times, Prince will seem that much easier when I retreat ignominiously to that level.)

My question: What settings (I have the vanilla game, not Warlords) should I use to make the transition easier? I normally play on big maps, but will that just make it easier for the AI to expand while I'm constrained by cashflow considerations?

My typical gameplay style is to get 4-6 cities down fairly fast, have one early war for some lebensraum, and settle into builder mode with 8-12 cities until Cannons/gunpowder (and enough of an economy to pay for my conquests). I'm a cottage spammer and do a pretty lousy job of focused GP generation (my GP cities are always polluted with undesirable GP points, in other words). I'm fairly adept at slaving, but am not much one for slingshots.

I figured Rome for the Praetorians, but suggestions as to map size/type/game speed/number of AI/etc are what I'm looking for. Suggestions as to a better Civ to play are welcome, too.

Your approach seems tactically sound. The only concern I have is that you don't articulate which victory you intended to play for. Without an overarching goal then there's the danger of distraction (focus on nice to have, not need to have, items) which has more impact the higher the difficulty.
(I guess this thread should migrate to the strategy forum.)

[Robert Plomp]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
CyberShy: Some of us get beaten on Monarch, I don't need immortal to lose.

I didn't say everybody should play at Immortal
But I advise people to play always on a level were winning is not a usual, or even a rare, thing.

[Pinchak]

Not in vanilla. Charismatic is Warlords only. Still, Washington is nice in Vanilla too.

Good catch. I don't even know what Washingtons traits are in Vanilla.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli

Your approach seems tactically sound. The only concern I have is that you don't articulate which victory you intended to play for. Without an overarching goal then there's the danger of distraction (focus on nice to have, not need to have, items) which has more impact the higher the difficulty.
(I guess this thread should migrate to the strategy forum.)

That's the thing. I generally win domination victories on Noble. Which isn't really a victory at all.

I've only played a handful of games (1 on Chieftain, 2 on Warlord, 6 or 7 on Noble). I haven't even participated in a space race yet. I recall building the UN in one game and voting myself the winner - that was boring. I came close to a culture win once, but dominated first. But since I haven't really come close to losing yet... I figured a big jump might be worth trying.

Since I appear to be a megalomaniac bent on world domination in most of my games... what are the "nice to have"s that I should avoid?

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
Since I appear to be a megalomaniac bent on world domination in most of my games... what are the "nice to have"s that I should avoid?

Great Wonders are a distraction for the warmonger. Religions, too. Both can be conquered and their benefits (often) enjoyed. Blake's comments in this thread sum up the warmonger strategy very well:

http://apolyton.net/forums//showthre...hreadid=165139

[DaveV]

Rather than move up to Monarch, I'd recommend jumping to Prince and installing the BetterAI mod. The AI places its cities and workers a lot better, and provides a much better opponent overall. I learned a lot by observing where the AI put its cities, and even where the blue circles appear.

[Solver]

Oh yeah, definitely install the mod. How could I forget to mention it The Prince AI will be approximately as challenging as Monarch used to be...

[mkorin]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli

Great Wonders are a distraction for the warmonger. Religions, too. Both can be conquered and their benefits (often) enjoyed. Blake's comments in this thread sum up the warmonger strategy very well:

http://apolyton.net/forums//showthre...hreadid=165139

On the Contrary, I am a Warmonger and I find being a Wonder Whore in the early game extremely beneficial. Extra GPs and whatever the wonder gives. I almost never get any vicotry other than conquest/dom because I have won prior to when the other victories were available. At least that's my experience on Prince. I'm taking another shot at Monarch so we'll see. I also get a religion right away and spread it quickly. The money I get from having the holy site and AIs being nice to me until I turn on them are very beneficial.

Mike

[Pinchak]

Another option for cranking up the difficulty without giving the AI "cheats" is to simply add more AI.

Once you get to the point where you can comfortably beat a certain difficulty level, try playing that level with 18 civs.

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by mkorin
On the Contrary, I am a Warmonger and I find being a Wonder Whore in the early game extremely beneficial. Extra GPs and whatever the wonder gives. I almost never get any vicotry other than conquest/dom because I have won prior to when the other victories were available. At least that's my experience on Prince. I'm taking another shot at Monarch so we'll see. I also get a religion right away and spread it quickly. The money I get from having the holy site and AIs being nice to me until I turn on them are very beneficial.
Mike

Try a with, and a without, early Wonders variant on similar maps at Monarch and let us know how you get on. It's a good learning exercise, well it worked for me at least! It's quite possible that you're already ahead of the curve: i.e. you can recognize when a Wonder gives a better return than a horde of Axemen would.

[LDiCesare]

Another option for cranking up the difficulty without giving the AI "cheats" is to simply add more AI.

I don't think so. More ai's = more possible trade partners. I find it way easier to stay ahead or comfortable in research when there are more ai's. Conquering doesn't change in terms of numbers since you will usually want to go to war againt only one civ at a time.

[Pinchak]

More AI makes it much harder for two reasons.

1. Competition for early land can get nightmarish (if you don't belive me, do a standard map with 18 AI, crank up the difficulty till they get free workers and/or settlers and it really gets fun!)

2. More AI means more competition for the win. I have had games where I was doing great, only to be outdone by a civ that was doing better, and unfortunatly was far from me (so i couldn't just destroy them). When you are playing with just 5 or 6 AI, generally you can "reach out and touch someone" if you have too.

The extra trade you get from more AI is negated IMO by alot of other factors.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

I generally play on fairly big maps with 12 or more AI. I think I maxed it out a couple of times :hmm:

[Targonis]

Ways to make things more difficult...

Ok, maybe it's because I always use the following options, but even noble is a challenge for me at this point. I always go for a huge world, continents(normal, not the custom), raging barbarians, 17 AI civs plus my own. No teams set, city flipping after conquest.

On noble, the barbarians tend to be no problem for me, though pushing for Great Wall early helps, and makes it so the barbarians hurt the AI civs. The 17 AI civs on a huge world, marathon game length(starting from 4000BC) really make for a LONG game.


So, would you say that this configuration would make it harder or easier?

[mkorin]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli

Try a with, and a without, early Wonders variant on similar maps at Monarch and let us know how you get on. It's a good learning exercise, well it worked for me at least! It's quite possible that you're already ahead of the curve: i.e. you can recognize when a Wonder gives a better return than a horde of Axemen would.

Chicken Itza and a couple bowman with defend negates as many axemen as you can make. I enjoy the AI that just keeps throwing axemen at my defended cities, I love free experience. I am currently playing a monarch game and the mongolian hordes came over my border while my main force was at the other side of my domain. I had 1 spearman, 1 swordman and 1 archer with 2 defends. This group held off about 10 axemen, archers, spearman until I could get a couple reinforcements. Genghis is still trying to get this one city which now has Longbowman while I have flanked him and taking cities pretty much at will. Hitler said that the best defense is a good offense and while that is fairly accurate in the real world, in Civ, the best offense is a good defense. Genghis blunted his army on my defended city when he had no reinforcements, I cleaned up. The right wonders make the game much easier and spreading your religion (with the holy city) gives you the cash to keep your science high and get ahead of the AI.

Mike

[snoopy369]

If you want to move up in difficulty, try playing with no tech trading - particularly with a voluntary no tech trading (ie, not the setting just choosing not to ever trade techs). That will force you to increase your tech rate significantly, which is what is necessary for later difficulty play anyhow.

[SebP]

Originally posted by mkorin

Chicken Itza and a couple bowman with defend negates as many axemen as you can make. I enjoy the AI that just keeps throwing axemen at my defended cities, I love free experience. I am currently playing a monarch game and the mongolian hordes came over my border while my main force was at the other side of my domain. I had 1 spearman, 1 swordman and 1 archer with 2 defends. This group held off about 10 axemen, archers, spearman until I could get a couple reinforcements.

Now imagine the 10 axemen would have been yours, and the archer and other axefodder the ai's. I wager it would turn out different


edited: i thought the "hitler" quote was clausewitz but i'm not sure now

[b etor]

wanna know who played on settler level today? ME.

[Exrook]

The origins of "The best defense is a good offense"

Make them believe, that offensive operations, often times, is the surest, if not the only ... means of defence. (George Washington, 1799)

The British People had always believed that the best form of defence was attack on the enemy. (_Times_, Nov 26, 1941)

"My old and very good friend, Jack Dempsey, has a saying which he has proved time and again in the ring. The best defense is a good offense." (Elia Kazan, _The Arrangement_, 1967)

He had learned -- at an early age -- that the best form of defense was offense. (Jackie Collins, _Hollywood Wives_, 1983)

[Tattila the Hun]

I've been playing with Blake's AI, I constantly win on Noble, but get trounced on Prince. Infact, I've only won once, on Pangaea, starting with axemen on a nearby civ with warriors, then against archers, axemen, and few longbows... Quite nice promotion curve.

[Pinchak]

particularly with a voluntary no tech trading (ie, not the setting just choosing not to ever trade techs)

Sheer suicide.

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Pinchak


Sheer suicide.

Apparently that has been my trouble. I have had a hard time going up in skill level, at the higher levels I always seem to be behind in tech level. I have never been good at trading techs with the AI, so I tend to have a voluntary "No Tech Trading" in place anyway. Maybe I should work on my Tech trading skills, then try moving up the skill level again.