Long live Monty

[MontyMustDie]

Right. So, me, self-styled hard-core builder player, currently doing random civ games to prep for stepping up a difficulty level.

Starts game yesterday, get my #1 hate Civ, Aztecs and Monty (hence nick). Game dumps me in a wooden hilly area surrounded by four other civs (Lizzie, Napoleon, Tokugawa and Catherine). Hack and slash ensues as it is the only possible way forth.

The result?

Domination victory with Augustus Caesar rating (17522 points) on Noble, Standard, Continent with vanilla.

Time for a rethink on my game, it seems.

(but the nick stays)

[Jaybe]

Naw, your problem isn't your game, it's your DESIRED game (self-styled hard-core builder).

Complaining that the game didn't go the way you expected before you saw what your situation was sounds like you lack flexibility. If you don't like the domination victory, then try HUGE map (with maybe marathon speed to help compensate).

[MontyMustDie]

I don't think that style is particularly desired (as such), it's just that the builder style has been wastly superior in terms of success on CivIII and CivIV for my part. Have tried going on the aggressive repreatedly with Bismarck (one of my faves) and have ended up with a bloody nose each time.

In comparision my best score on CivI was a clean sweep on Earth map with the Egyptians churning out cannons like mad.

Lack of flexibility, yes. I have tended to revert to builder mode no matter what; that's why I'm currently playing a string of random civ games. But only this one has been so radically different and successful; mostly, it's been cultural victories, spaceship victories (or tight defeats) or failed aggressive campaigns.

As for victory, heck, I don't mind which way they come as long as they come. The domination victory movie struck me as a tad omnious, though.

[One_more_turn]

The conquest victory movie is the best.

[mkorin]

I find it hard to win as anything other than Conquest or Dominion. Warlords makes diplomicy easier as I have so many vassels. Currently playing Prince, Huge map. Just got tanks, I've already destroyed two civs and made 4 into vassels. The remainder will fall before Diplomacy or Space flight is even considered. I try to be a builder, but get bored and have these huge armies to guard my borders ----so.

[Bkeela]

I've never achieved a conquest victory because domination always comes first. I've tried, oh how I've tried, but it just becomes too much of a logistical nightmare to time a simultaneous war on all the various far flung islands the AI - because by the time I have dominated my home island, I am hovering on the brink of a domination victory, and one or two extra cities would tip the balance. I can never be bothered.

I think domination requirements should be made tougher.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Bkeela
I think domination requirements should be made tougher.

Just raze most of the captured cities and don't settle in the spaces.

[rah]

Or just turn off the domination victory condition.

[Common Sensei]

I used to be a hardcore builder prior to Civ IV. These days if I find close neighbors I hurry to make sure I can take them out early, and if conditions are right, I'll finish domination by some point. More often than not it's post-Flight out of laziness when Domination/Conquest does happen since other civs will be on a far away continent.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by rah
Or just turn off the domination victory condition.

That's what I did. I always find the domination victories anticlimactic; I usually get the victory message while I'm consolidating a round of conquests that took place several turns earlier.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
That's what I did. I always find the domination victories anticlimactic; I usually get the victory message while I'm consolidating a round of conquests that took place several turns earlier.

So true... I turned it off after just such an experience.
Nothing worse when you are trying to clean up the last few civs, and you get the YOU WIN message.

[zeace]

Anyone who prefers Conquest to Domination never played the old Civ games where Domination was never a possibility. There were innumerable games where I finally got an army big enough to take out that last civ and take over all the continents of the world... And then when I'm done I have a look around and there's 12 little islands with 1 or 2 cities on them. Mostly arctic garbage piles. The cities can't build much other than defenders...

So now I have to build a navy and get an amphibious force together and then I can start traveling from island to island burning them to the ground. In the meantime I still have an enormous empire to run, and since more units just mean I need more boats, I instead set them to improvements.

It can take an hour to finally finish up this game. Is this really fun? Ironically, because you spend a few turns improving your newly gotten cities, it actually can help your score to delay victory a few turns. So now every time you play you have to decide:

1. Prebuild my island invasion forces to speed up my win?
2. Improve my new cities while I finish the other cities and improve my score.
3. It's 3:30 am, I'm going to bed.

Domination is awesome. I love that I can get the game "won" and then I can very quickly WIN. If I'm really feeling masochistic and want to finish everyone off there's always the "Just one more turn..." button.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by zeace
Anyone who prefers Conquest to Domination never played the old Civ games where Domination was never a possibility. There were innumerable games where I finally got an army big enough to take out that last civ and take over all the continents of the world... And then when I'm done I have a look around and there's 12 little islands with 1 or 2 cities on them. Mostly arctic garbage piles. The cities can't build much other than defenders...

So now I have to build a navy and get an amphibious force together and then I can start traveling from island to island burning them to the ground. In the meantime I still have an enormous empire to run, and since more units just mean I need more boats, I instead set them to improvements.

It can take an hour to finally finish up this game. Is this really fun? Ironically, because you spend a few turns improving your newly gotten cities, it actually can help your score to delay victory a few turns. So now every time you play you have to decide:

1. Prebuild my island invasion forces to speed up my win?
2. Improve my new cities while I finish the other cities and improve my score.
3. It's 3:30 am, I'm going to bed.

Domination is awesome. I love that I can get the game "won" and then I can very quickly WIN. If I'm really feeling masochistic and want to finish everyone off there's always the "Just one more turn..." button.

To each his own, I guess. By way of analogy, I used to play these ridiculous custom gigamap games in Civ2 where the city limit would be reached in the 1800s. After overwhelming my neighbours and getting a big lead, I'd often retire and record my score, rather than go through the formalities of building a couple dozen transports, loading the invasion, and doing all the conquering. After a while that much management gets tedious. But the point was that it was my option to retire and record my score at that point. I like to stop when I feel that I've won, not when some game algorithim tells me I've won.

[zeace]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
I like to stop when I feel that I've won, not when some game algorithim tells me I've won.

I don't think I've ever won a domination in Civ IV where I thought there was any chance I could lose. There have been a few games where I spent the last couple turns pushing my luck to try and get the win, but if domination hadn't existed I would have played it safe and built an even larger army and still would have won eventually.

In fact maybe I hate domination because it forces me to play too long after I think I've won. If I had to win by conquest I'd probably accept that I'd won earlier and stop. Then I'd get to play more games overall.

[Jaybe]

In the early days of Civ4, I have been surprised by the AI on occasion, such as winning the space race when I thought I had it sown up. For such reasons, I have gotten in the habit of playing to the end (once when I was the one being conquered).

The surprises don't come so much anymore, but I still play to the end. Besides, seeing HOW it happens is part of the fun.