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Thread: Economics of Immigration: why are people opposed?

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    Economics of Immigration: why are people opposed?

    I saw this article on another site and thought I'd post it here. I do support the free movement of labor as a whole though I think politically it can only work between roughly economically equal nations. If the first world were to have completely open borders with China or India then the next day there would be hundreds of millions of immigrants who would swamp the recieving countries and create more problems then they solve. Middle to high income countries though would see only the benifets without the giant sunami of people so open borders better those countries is a doable idea.

    Waves of fear
    Jan 11th 2007
    From The Economist print edition

    In a controversial new book a British economist asks why so many people are against the free movement of labour

    FOR years now, free trade and free movement of capital have been respectable economic tenets, espoused—if sometimes reluctantly—by most politicians. But no sane politician in the rich world would advocate free movement of labour. As a result, most people are trapped in their native lands, never likely to have a legal opportunity to see the world outside.

    Philippe Legrain, a liberal economist who once worked for The Economist, has already written a book stoutly defending globalisation. Now he takes on an even more emotive subject. There is not a shadow of doubt about his own views. He wants open borders. He believes that they will, on balance, enrich both sending and receiving countries; he thinks diversity generally makes life more interesting; and he detests bureaucratic restrictions on human freedoms. “Immigrants are not an invading army,” he points out. “They come in search of a better life. They are no different to someone who moves from Manchester to London, or Oklahoma to California, because that is where the jobs are. Except that a border lies in the way.”

    Mr Legrain has assembled powerful evidence to undermine the economic arguments against immigration. In the case of skilled migrants, that is relatively easy. But the migrants who arrive in the back of lorries and huddled in small boats are unskilled. For them, there are hardly any legal tracks across borders. Yet, argues Mr Legrain, they too bring economic benefits and do “little or no harm” to the wages or employment prospects of native workers. As for the economic impact on sending countries, many now gain more from remittances than from official aid or inward investment. He quotes approvingly a government minister from the Philippines who says: “Overseas employment has built more homes, sent more children of the poor to college and established more business enterprises than all the other programmes of the government put together.”

    Mr Legrain makes a robust economic case—though he surely understates the impact of immigrants on holding back the pay of the poorest, often themselves the children of immigrants. He is more successful at rebutting the argument that taxpayers give willingly only to those with whom they feel some kinship and that immigration, therefore, jeopardises support for the welfare state. A willingness to pay taxes to support the poor is independent of levels of immigration, he shows.

    Less convincing are his proposals for encouraging immigrants to go home after a period of working abroad. If immigration were temporary, he reasons, people might tolerate it more readily. So why not get immigrants to post a bond on arrival, say, or have a portion of their wages withheld until they leave? The trouble with such ingenious ideas is that immigrants from the world's poorer countries have many reasons to stay overseas, especially in Europe or America. The financial gains are huge, but they are by no means the only rewards. Life is much easier where there is the rule of law, less petty corruption and a better health-care system than exists at home.

    But hostility to immigration is not just, or indeed mainly, about economics. It is based on fear of change and on racism. It has also, since the World Trade Centre attacks, been based on growing worries about Muslim terrorism. Such anxieties are not easily assuaged by economic logic. It is striking, for example, how little serious protest there was in Britain at the absorption of over 500,000 east European immigrants in the two years after Poland and nine other countries acceded to the European Union in May 2004. Surely at least one reason was that these white Christian Europeans look and (seem to) think extraordinarily like most British people, and their children and grandchildren will be distinguishable only by their unpronounceable names.

    By contrast, many Muslim immigrants and their children have become more estranged, not less. Their ambivalence towards the West and its secular liberalism has appeared to grow, not diminish. It is, of course, wholly unreasonable to see most Muslims as potential terrorists—but reason may not have much chance here.

    So no government in the rich world is likely to open its borders to all comers, as Mr Legrain urges. For politicians, the tricky question is who to let in. And how to define a coherent policy? The harsh truth is that voters find it easier to accept immigrants who look and behave as they do than those who are different. That, as a basis for policy, still leaves most of mankind outside the gates.
    http://www.economist.com/books/displ...ory_id=8516034
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    I'd love to see open borders between the various upper to middle income states or at least a right to work after the immigrant passes a thorough background check to insure they aren't criminals.

    The EU, former USSR, NAFTA, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand would all qualify based on income. Chile, Uruguay, and Argentia might as well. This would benifet everyone in all of those countries (except possibly the least skilled/poorest people in recieving countries who won't welcome newcomers competiting for his janitorial job).
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    Immigration is mostly not a problem from the economic standpoint, though some groups can be disproportionally hard-hit by it. From what I understand, in US Afroamericans are being squeezed out from many occupations by cheaper Mexican workforce.

    But immigration is a big problem if immigrants are not from a compatible culture, and politicians should make sure only assimilable individuals are let in the (any) country.

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    Originally posted by Oerdin
    The EU, former USSR, NAFTA, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand would all qualify based on income. Chile, Uruguay, and Argentia might as well. This would benifet everyone in all of those countries (except possibly the least skilled/poorest people in recieving countries who won't welcome newcomers competiting for his janitorial job).
    Doesn't the US qualify?

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    Goes without saying, surely.
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    I just want more mexican women in my city. My city has a serious imbalance of males to females, because not enough mexican women are coming over.

    Seriously though, this is a problem in that all the money they make is being shipped back to Mexico. It's not staying within the local economy. I would prefer they be permanent residents and move their family here.

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    It's quite funny how people oppose immigration because they dislike foreigners, while they are being explained to that economically it's OK. Economics is kind of minor point with regards to immigration.

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    The Economist = Neo-Liberal rag.
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    Originally posted by Provost Harrison


    Doesn't the US qualify?
    The US is covered under NAFTA.
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    "A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself."
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    Ah yes, never noticed that, doh!
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    Originally posted by Odin
    The Economist = teh roxxorz
    Fixed.
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    So who is opposed to open borders between economic equals or near equals? It seems to have worked well in the EU though I notice that many EU states are slapping restrictions on migration from new member states. I find that sad.
    "Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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    Free immigration and trade
    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
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    Yes open al lthe borders...

    Wil lbring costs of labour down !!!
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    Originally posted by Ramo
    Free immigration and trade
    THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
    AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
    AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
    DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

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    I agree with Ramo.

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    Originally posted by Oerdin
    The EU, former USSR, NAFTA, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand would all qualify based on income. Chile, Uruguay, and Argentia might as well. This would benifet everyone in all of those countries (except possibly the least skilled/poorest people in recieving countries who won't welcome newcomers competiting for his janitorial job).
    Wait, Chile might but the former USSR definitely would? You realise Chile's probably quite a bit richer than much of Eastern Europe? I'm up for the Australian or Canadian method - economic immigration by skills. They have a points system that ranks people's skills, age, background, work experience, etc. Basically everything needed to be a productive member of society. From a developed world point of view, I think it's the best for our country. From a global efficiency point of view, the author is right and labour mobility is a great thing.
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    I would love free borders, but political considerations ALWAYS trump economic ones. People who think humans are economic animals are wrong, people are political animals.
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    Even economically I don't think it makes sense for the developed countries.
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    NAFTA has a member that doesn't not qualify givin your requirements.

    Immigration should be requlated by skill set.
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    Mexico's per capita income in PPP terms is $10,000 per year. That's a pretty good number in global terms. Their not wealthy but they're certainly in the middle in economic terms. The US and Mexico are similiar to say Germany and Poland; Poland seems to be doing just fine in the EU.
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    It seems to have worked well in the EU though I notice that many EU states are slapping restrictions on migration from new member states. I find that sad.
    In many chases there's no need immigration barriers against economic migrants nowadays, between developed world at least. There's a lot of other laws, customs and regulations that de facto stops economic mass migration.

    Sweden decided against restricting the labour force of new member states. Haven't been a problem at all thus far. Woun't be either as long as the european court doesn't decide to outlaw the swedish system for setting wages and deals between labour and capital.

    There where some concern with something nicked "social tourism" where people from the new states would move to Sweden in an effort to take advantage of the welfare system. As far as I know, hardly nobody did so. Imagine being a poor polish unemployed worker, moving north (cold), finding a place to live (hard), being able to pay the first rent (hardly swedes can) and then manage to get on social welfare with nothing but a polish passport and an apartement (good luck!).
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    I'm up for the Australian or Canadian method - economic immigration by skills. They have a points system that ranks people's skills, age, background, work experience, etc. Basically everything needed to be a productive member of society.




    I'd love to see this kind of system instituted in America. Our current immigration situation is ridiculous...
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    Skill set migration helps but whole sale migration would do more to contain wage pressure.
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    You're ignoring long-term concerns to try and keep inflation down? The key here is sustainability. The fed could keep inflation at 0, if they wanted to, without any immigration, however that would be unsustainable. As the immigration is too. The issue is not one of keep economic variables at some level in the short term, it's about ensuring long-term stability.
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    Originally posted by Rasputin
    Yes open al lthe borders...

    Wil lbring costs of labour down !!!
    Ok if you're upper-middle- or upper-class.

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    Originally posted by Patroklos


    Immigration should be requlated by skill set.
    How would one define a skills shortage, and alternatively when should wages be able to rise in the host country in order to cope with that shortage?

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    Not by skills shortage, IMHO, but by skill set. Ie. skilled workers get in, those who require asylum get in, everyone else doesn't. Skilled workers could just be a level of education (a degree perhaps), a job offer in a skilled or professional occupation, etc. That means people who get in either need to be here for their safety or will be contributing to the country, economically.
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    Originally posted by Dis
    I just want more mexican women in my city. My city has a serious imbalance of males to females, because not enough mexican women are coming over.

    Seriously though, this is a problem in that all the money they make is being shipped back to Mexico. It's not staying within the local economy. I would prefer they be permanent residents and move their family here.
    I agree with this. Don't just come here to work, bring your family and become a member of soceity.

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