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  • Is it just me or does Ned have a bigger persecution complex than just about anyone in history?
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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    • Well I guess it's Mannings year after all.




      Manning is to QBs what Schottenheimer is to coaches.

      Peyton Manning as one of the best QBs of all time (by the time his career is over)




      How 'bout we wait until he wins his first title at any level before we put him up there with Montana, Unitas and Brady?
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      • Nah. I am Bears and White Sox fan. The Chicago football and baseball teams are always dismissed even when they are good. Remember, for example, a couple of years ago they said the Sox were the least likely to win at the beginning of the playoffs?

        Chicago had the second best record in the NFC last year and lead the NFL in scoring defense. Yet, to start this season, most power raters had them nearer the bottom than the top of the rankings. The know-it-alls dismissed the Bears as a team that had no chance. Most didn't even pick them to win the division.

        After a while, you just get sick of it all and wish the Chicago teams would not only win, but win like the '85 Bears did, with awesome domination, or like the 2005 Sox who went 11-1 in the playoffs and had their starters pitch four complete games in a row at one point.
        http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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        • Peyton Manning as one of the best QBs of all time (by the time his career is over)




          How 'bout we wait until he wins his first title at any level before we put him up there with Montana, Unitas and Brady?
          How about we wait until Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, etc, wins a Super Bowl before putting them in the discussion? How about we wait until Eric Dickerson, Barry Sanders, etc wins a Super Bowl before putting them in the greatest RB discussions? Titles aren't the starting and stopping point in the discussion of the best QB.

          I'd think a player who will probably end up as being the top TD man in NFL history and top 5 in yards, in addition to basically running the entire offense, will end up in the discussion just as Marino is today.

          [q=Ned]Yet, to start this season, most power raters had them nearer the bottom than the top of the rankings.[/q]

          Say what? You'll need to justify that one. The ESPN Power Rankings that you love to hate, had them at 13 in the preseason. Being that there are 32 teams, that's closer to the top.

          [q=Ned]Most didn't even pick them to win the division.[/q]

          Now THAT is a baldfaced lie.
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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          • How about we wait until Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, etc, wins a Super Bowl before putting them in the discussion?


            Fouts isn't going to be very high on anyone's best QBs list. Marino will be closer, but people associate him with his lack of a Super Bowl win more than his gaudy stats. At least he made it to a Super Bowl, though...

            How about we wait until Eric Dickerson, Barry Sanders, etc wins a Super Bowl before putting them in the greatest RB discussions?


            Dickerson ain't near the top of anyone's list, either. Sanders might be, but he spent his college and pro career carrying terrible teams and never had a realistic shot at a title. He didn't choke away numerous chances like Manning has at the college and pro level.

            I was wrong about one thing, though. Manning managed to win one SEC championship while at Tennessee. So he's got that going for him.

            Titles aren't the starting and stopping point in the discussion of the best QB.


            No, but they're pretty damn important. That's why Montana and Elway are considered better QBs than Marino and why Brady is a better QB than Manning. Winning when it counts matters.

            I'd think a player who will probably end up as being the top TD man in NFL history and top 5 in yards, in addition to basically running the entire offense, will end up in the discussion just as Marino is today.


            Or he'll end up like Warren Moon...
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            • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
              How 'bout we wait until he wins his first title at any level before we put him up there with Montana, Unitas and Brady?
              Anthony Muñoz never won a Superbowl. Although he dominated opposing pass-rushers for over a decade and was a unanimous selection to the hall of fame, he's overrated because he never won a championship. He obviously just racked up stats, while other offensive linemen, like former New England tackle Brandon Gorin, have the Superbowl rings to show that they are truly great players. Sure, Gorin can't even start for Arizona, the worst line in the league, but he makes the plays when it counts and he did just enough to win in the 2004 Superbowl.

              Anthony Muñoz fades in the big games, just like Willie Roaf, Walter Jones, and other overrated tackles. What an *******.
              "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

              Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

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              • Is Anthony Munoz really the best example you could think of? A tackle who retired 15 years ago?
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                • Well, given that he's almost universally recognized as the best offensive lineman to ever play the game, I think he's an excellent example.

                  You're much better at trolling over in the regular OT, Drake.
                  "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

                  Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

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                  • BTW, I think it is f*uc*ing great that the overrated Bolts lost to the underrated Pats. How many probowlers do the Bolts have? 25? 50? The Pats have one. Even Brady was ignored in favor of Rivers.

                    What happened today in San Diego was what is known as "just deserts".
                    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                    • Originally posted by Ned
                      BTW, I think it is f*uc*ing great that the overrated Bolts lost to the underrated Pats. How many probowlers do the Bolts have? 25? 50? The Pats have one. Even Brady was ignored in favor of Rivers.

                      What happened today in San Diego was what is known as "just deserts".
                      May I ask what the first of the two asterisks stands for?
                      "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

                      Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

                      Comment


                      • Well, given that he's almost universally recognized as the best offensive lineman to ever play the game, I think he's an excellent example.


                        Comparing O lineman to QBs in this case is idiotic. Not only does a QB has vastly more influence over how well his team performs than a tackle does (and, as such, is held responsible when his team fails), but people actually know and care about QBs and what they do. There aren't too many discussions about who the best O lineman of all time is, mostly because people don't care...

                        It's Will Shields, btw. **** Munoz...
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                        • In other news, this may be the dumbest thing I've ever read...

                          Brady was awful for all but the final drive of the first half. The Chargers executed a solid, conservative game plan. Tomlinson was great on first downs, but the Patriots defense wasn't concerned as long as Tomlinson didn't bust long touchdown runs. Tomlinson wasn't going to beat them with 10-yard runs.


                          The Chargers got schooled by the best (Bill Belichick and Tom Brady) in the art of doing whatever it takes to win in the playoffs, writes John Clayton.


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                          • So Bradshaw is considered a better QB than Marino because he has the rings? No one says that.. aside from nutso Steelers fans.

                            And of course Fouts is in the mix. He's one of the Top 10 QBs of all time. No doubt higher than Bradshaw, for one. Why is it his fault that his defenses generally sucked ass, oh and the fact that he had little running game?

                            It's the biggest bull**** in the world. Elway was a great QB, but then he wins the SuperBowl twice because he has Terrell Davis (lets be honest here) and suddenly he's the best ever? Bull.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                            • So Bradshaw is considered a better QB than Marino because he has the rings?


                              Why not? Marino's stats are better, but Bradshaw came through in the clutch.

                              And of course Fouts is in the mix. He's one of the Top 10 QBs of all time.


                              I was thinking more Top 5. Dickerson would probably be in too if we're talking Top 10 running backs of all time.

                              Elway was a great QB, but then he wins the SuperBowl twice because he has Terrell Davis (lets be honest here) and suddenly he's the best ever?


                              Elway's not the best ever. He was better than Marino, though.
                              KH FOR OWNER!
                              ASHER FOR CEO!!
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                              • Why not? Marino's stats are better, but Bradshaw came through in the clutch.


                                With this statement you lose. Go join Ned in the dunces corner.

                                Next you'll try to take the troll to another level and claim Namath was better than Marino .

                                Elway's not the best ever.


                                Plenty will argue that he is. Especially for a few years after he retired.

                                But of course he isn't. Unitas is. Imagine Johnny U's numbers against a defense that wasn't allowed to bump receivers all the way down the field.
                                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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