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"Complex" plot of blow up UK airlines foiled

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  • Does anyone have any knowledge about what liquid explosive they might have been planning to use? IIRC nitroglycerine is too unstable to be carried around without special precautions. If someone accidently bumped into a container of nitroglycerine it might go off. The US military has been trying to develop liquid propellant explosives for years. They'd like to be able to do away with propellant cartridges for artillery and replace them with a liquid that would be pumped into the gun chamber behind the projectile. So far they haven't come up with anything that stable. I recall one article mentioning hydrogen peroxide, but I think that would require nearly pure H2O2, which is also pretty unstable.

    I wonder if their liquid explosive was really feasible, or if had the plot not been uncovered there would have been some explosions in one or more London apartments as the date of the attack approached.
    "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

    Comment


    • I think that it was to be carried as two seperate liquids, which when combined, formed an explosive compound.

      The '95 plot used cotton as a stabilizer for the nitroglycerin. When the two are combined, a substance called gun cotton is created, which has been used by the military in the past (hence the name). I learned how to make the stuff from a Green Beret handbook a freakazoid acquaintence came across at a garage sale. He later convereted to Islam. When I first heard about José Padilla, I though maybe it was this guy.
      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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      • You can't just pour nitroglycerine onto cotton and then light it up, the process takes time and requires fairly good temperature control or else the product will ignite during the process. Anyway nitrocellulose isn't a liquid.

        I wonder if they were thinking of combining hydrogen peroxide with methanol? IIRC the Germans used such a cobination in one version of the rocket fighter back in WW2. The problem with that is that the methanol would begin to burn as soon as the first drops of H202 hit it. I suppose they could have designed a container within a container - break the inner container so the chemicals mix together rapidly enough to explode.

        British airlines are going to ban all carry-on liquids except milk for babies on their planes. Wouldn't it be possible to make a liquid explosive look like milk?
        "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by chegitz guevara
          If discolusre of SWIFT was damaging, then Bush already let the cat out of the bag in 2004, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Maybe that way it will finally get into your brain.

          Also, in cases of national security, the Feds actually have the authority to stop the publication of something, so if SWIFT was that important, they could have sought and obtained an injunction.

          Or maybe you're just trying to score ignorant political points as if the destruction of our rights was some sort of game.
          Ahh the ole Bush leaked it earlier Canard. Get this straight he NEVER mentioned SWIFT. THe details were never given out.
          "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

          “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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          • So "if [financial institutions] fail to help us by sharing information or freezing accounts, the Department of the Treasury now has the authority to freeze their bank's assets and transactions in the United States" (linkage) revealed as much about SWIFT as the NYT expose Che?
            Unbelievable!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
              Does anyone have any knowledge about what liquid explosive they might have been planning to use? IIRC nitroglycerine is too unstable to be carried around without special precautions. If someone accidently bumped into a container of nitroglycerine it might go off. The US military has been trying to develop liquid propellant explosives for years. They'd like to be able to do away with propellant cartridges for artillery and replace them with a liquid that would be pumped into the gun chamber behind the projectile. So far they haven't come up with anything that stable. I recall one article mentioning hydrogen peroxide, but I think that would require nearly pure H2O2, which is also pretty unstable.

              I wonder if their liquid explosive was really feasible, or if had the plot not been uncovered there would have been some explosions in one or more London apartments as the date of the attack approached.
              I read an article in the paper which said it could be hydrogen peroxide, acid and acetone. 70% H2O2 would make for a really good bomb, but 30% would do. There are probably other combos, too.
              Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin
              Iain Banks missed deadline due to Civ | The eyes are the groin of the head. - Dwight Schrute.
              One more turn .... One more turn .... | WWTSD

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
                THe details were never given out.
                BFD. Everyone knew their finances were being tracked through the legal banking system. If it were an important secret, the government could have prevented publication.
                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                Comment


                • The details that the NYT provided weren't useful to terrorists since SWIFT (as I mentioned in the other thread) encompasses virtually every commercial bank. The general idea that we were tracking bank transfers was already given away multiple times by Dear Leader and company. Again, as I mentioned in the other thread, in '04 he campaigned on the very fact that we have been able to track down a large amount (over a hundred and forty million dollars) in terrorist financial transactions.
                  "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                  -Bokonon

                  Comment


                  • Incidentally, John Dean's new book on the rise of authoritarianism in the conservative movement is quite good (he considers himself a libertarian leaning "Goldwater Republican").
                    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                    -Bokonon

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
                      British airlines are going to ban all carry-on liquids except milk for babies on their planes. Wouldn't it be possible to make a liquid explosive look like milk?
                      People bringing on baby milk are, IIRC, required to personally drink a bit themselves before its allowed on.
                      Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
                      -Richard Dawkins

                      Comment


                      • People bringing on baby milk are, IIRC, required to personally drink a bit themselves before its allowed on.
                        Part of the 'new normal.'
                        "Truth against the world" - Eire

                        Comment


                        • These are fanatics. Small diluted doses of H202 won't kill you immediately. They might just get someone willing to drink a tiny dose of the stuff.

                          OTOH I imagine that they require that you have a baby with you if you're going to carry on the milk. Would a terrorist be willing to sacrifice his infant child? What good would 72 virgins be to a baby?

                          They could kidnap a baby. It's not like the kid's going to squeal on them.
                          "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

                          Comment


                          • Fanatics are willing to pay any price, hence the term.
                            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Park Avenue


                              I said to a work colleague yesterday, I wonder how long it is before the human rights lawyers get involved. Geez, Daulphin, you are so bigoted against the West.
                              Awww, thanks. Coming from you that means a lot. I have tears in my eyes.
                              One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lord of the mark
                                lets see

                                If nobodys caught, and no terror happens, than Bush is making a huge fuss about terror, which is a minor, almost nonexistent thing.

                                If we catch somebody, its a round up of some minor folks, which will be usedto make a fuss about terror, a minor thing.

                                If a big terror event happens, then the admin must have ignored warnings, and let it happen, in order to make a big fuss about terror, for their own nefarious purposes.

                                Can anyone say non-falsifiable theory?
                                Actually, if there are no attacks I think it a sign of good intelligence operations. Where I think the huge fuss about terror being blown out of proportion arises is where you have spurious linkages between cause and effect and a massive disconnect between what is done to prevent terror and what would actually prevent terror.

                                I think that the best jobs done by the police forces are those where there is no public awareness of it and it has minimal impact on people's lives. It can be done, and I'm sure it has been done. Problem is that we have now after this latest incident the Home Secretary trumpetting the foiling of several other attacks that people had tried to commit - why choose now to tell us, does it just seem apt or is it politically precipitated? Link

                                The thing that strikes me is that, in the middle of this sudden 'critical' security state of affairs, Blair can afford to go on holiday. If there was a real threat of another 9/11 would you ponce off to the Caribbean? I'm sure it can be explained away, but it still raises the question.


                                And, yes you are right, precaution is better than catastrophe. Likewise I think it be better to be cynical of what you are told than to be accepting of what you are told. I just question the timing and the presentation, because no matter what happens it will be politically loaded. When it's political it's going to be murky water.
                                One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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