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  • UB Discussion

    As we get more information on the UBs, it appears that some are stronger or weaker than we initally thought. Here are some that have changed dramaticaly in my eyes.

    Japanese Shale Plant- There is now evidence that suggests that this UB gets +10 production instead of +10% production! This is huge, and with all the mulitipliers from forges, factories, etc, can give even fishing villages decent production. If true, this would move this UB from bottom tier to at least mid-tier.

    Spanish Citadel- I had this UB ranked as mid tier last time, but the fact that it gives an extra trade route until economics (or permanently, depending on where you are reading), along with the hodge podge of other benefits moves this UB straight to top tier, IMO.

    American Mall- Originally, it was believed that this UB replaced the grocer. I had it listed as a solid mid tier UB. Now there is evidence that suggests it replaces super market instead! Coming so late, with such a modest bonus compared to civs that UBs have been helping them the whole game moves this UB right to to th ebottom of the bottom tier, possibly even below the odeon.

    Indian Mausoleum- For a while, it was hoped that this UB had some bonus other than +2 . The manual mentioned it gave great prophet points, which, while not highly desirable at that point in the game, would at least be something. The civlopedia and the IGN preview mentions nothing about these great prophet points, so I will have to assume that they were removed. This is UB is cleary inferior to the Turkish Hamamm which gives the same bonus and is available far earlier. This one definitely needs a boost.

    German Assembly Plant- This unit was originally believed to give a 50% production increase with coal. I thought this was reasonable for a late UB, and could help make the Germans a late game nightmare. I originally ranked this UB mid-tier. However, it has now been confirmed that it only builds 50% *faster* with coal. This is considerably less interesting, and quite weak for a late game UB. This UB will probably get moved down to bottom tier, but this is one I would like to play around with a bit before passing final judgement. Overall though:

    What do you guys think? Thus far, i am under the impression that Firaxis doesn't quite grasp the advantage that earlier UBs have over later UBs and some of these later UBs will need a solid boost.
    http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    Just relived something. The Shale Plant will no longer give it's bonus once you build a clen power plant. Bottom-mid tier.
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    • #3
      Not clear what the advantage is to Spanish Citadel, since all castles give extra trade route until economics.

      Also not clear what "50% faster" means versus an extra 50% production boost, i.e., 50% more hammers.
      No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
      "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Will9
        Just relived something. The Shale Plant will no longer give it's bonus once you build a clen power plant. Bottom-mid tier.
        Why not? Even if that is the case it gives a major boost by turning small, weaker, unproductive cities - which tend to have a low population and so don't need the extra health - into viable militray production centers (among other things). I'd still give it a midde to second highest tier rating if the health benefits do go with hydro.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Blaupanzer
          Also not clear what "50% faster" means versus an extra 50% production boost, i.e., 50% more hammers.
          Those extra hammers only go towards building the assembly plant instead of everything that comes after it. I'd still give it a high rating. Industrialising slightly earlier in your core cities and far quicker in your outer cities is a good deal to me.
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          • #6
            Man, all castles give an extra trade route until economics? Are you sure about that? I had no idea that was the case this whole time I played Vanilla Civ.
            http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

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            • #7
              They don't. Just +1 culture. I think he means all castles in Warlords give +1 trade route.

              Edit: The trade route could have some excellent benefits for the game overall. It means more people are likely to build them so all cities get the 100% defence bonus. It also means that Isabella doesn't have to go on a detour (which no one else takes) to get some very good bonuses.

              Edit: Trebuchets are also available with this tech as are pikemen (which will be handy with the greater emphasis placed on mounted units in the game). Engineering doesn't look to expensive anymore.
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              • #8
                Ah, very good to know. Thanks Thedrin.
                So I guess the Citadel isn't quite top tier then, but I have always stood behind it as a solid UB.
                http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

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                • #9
                  I'd say it is top tier. All the extra benefits that come with engineering (listed above in an edit) mean that it's no longer the fill-in tech that its large research cost often made it seem. Therefore Isabella isn't too disadvantaged by researching it earlier on.
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                  • #10
                    Some mis-information here. Let me debunk some of this with my manual in hand while I'm bored at work.

                    First, the Shale Plant is +10% hammers, not +10. EDIT: I see in the manual it says +10 in the chapter about new buildings, but it says +10% in the appendix. I believe the lack of a "%" to be a typo, but I'd have to verify at home. Someone else can probably easier, by opening up the Civlopedia (is it me or is this much more useful now then it was at launch? Maybe I'm just getting used to it?)

                    Second, German factory is like a regular one (+25% unless powered, then +50% to hammer production) but it's bonus is you are allowed up to FOUR engineers(!) rather than the usual 2 with a regular factory. I don't see anything in the manual about it building "faster" with coal, but if it does that's just an extra perk, it still works like a regular factory. EDIT: It does indeed "double build speed" with coal, like some wonders do with Stone or Marble. This is a great UB, IMHO.

                    I'll edit this with more if I find any other rumors I can debunk.

                    EDIT: Mausoleum does give +1 GP (Great Prophet) in addition to the +2 happiness. I think this is really great, since more often than not, having the extra +2 happiness along with the -50% war means not having to fear extended military campaigns.

                    The Mall information as it's listed in the OP is correct, but I'd like to say, I think it's a significant UB, in that the extra revenue it generates will help upgrade the mid-game units to more modern units, which is where having a solid bank of coin comes in very handy, in my opinion.
                    Last edited by BleedTheFreak; July 26, 2006, 12:22.

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                    • #11
                      It is indeed +10% in the Civilopedia.
                      - Dregor

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                      • #12
                        Thanks for the clarification folks. It looks like Shale Plant isn't quite as good, but it still is worthy of note since it is the only UB that directly increases production.

                        The problem with the mall is that it's not really a mid game UB, it is available with refridgeration which is usually one of the last techs that I research.

                        BTF:Mausoleum mentions the great prophet points in the manual, but nothing in the civlopedia. Are you sure it still gives the prophet points?
                        http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by monkspider
                          Thanks for the clarification folks. It looks like Shale Plant isn't quite as good, but it still is worthy of note since it is the only UB that directly increases production.

                          The problem with the mall is that it's not really a mid game UB, it is available with refridgeration which is usually one of the last techs that I research.

                          BTF:Mausoleum mentions the great prophet points in the manual, but nothing in the civlopedia. Are you sure it still gives the prophet points?
                          All I have to go on is the manual. I guess we'd have to build one and then monitor the GP bar to see what's happening.

                          Also of note, the Mausoleum is missing from the appendix (I figured I'd see if it was mentioned there as well).

                          I have to wonder, how can a building grant you Great People points though? Maybe that is a bit too powerful? Can anyone load up a quick game (or even the world editor) and build a few cities with Mausoleums in them and confirm what the deal with them is?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Thedrin
                            The trade route [from castles] could have some excellent benefits for the game overall. It means more people are likely to build them so all cities get the 100% defence bonus. It also means that Isabella doesn't have to go on a detour (which no one else takes) to get some very good bonuses.
                            How is the Spanish Citadel any better than any other castle? (Still don't have the game, sniff, sniff.)
                            No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
                            "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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                            • #15
                              1) It gives two XP to all siege units.
                              2) It halves the damage done by siege units do city defences.
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