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Thread: Does Israel use the M1 Abrams tank?

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    Does Israel use the M1 Abrams tank?

    I know Israel uses their own Merkava tank but I thought they also owned some of the American made M1 tanks and older M-60 tanks. Am I right or do I owe my co-worker lunch tomorrow?
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    Its been awhile. I'll have to check.
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    this is what you bet on? why not coin flips, or "guess which hand the pencil is in"?
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    You owe your co-worker lunch.
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    I don't think they do. They began using their indegenous Merkava around the time the M1 came into use, in addtion to the M60.
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    ok, burritos on me then.
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    How recent is that? I thought they were on the Merkava MkIV.

    Just googling around, I saw Egypt has M1A1s, someone on some forum claimed Israel has less than 50 M1A1s (found nothing to back that up), and budget cuts threaten further production of the Merkava MkIV and development of a MkV.

    The Merkava was developed so that Israel wouldn't be dependent upon other countries for tanks. Britain was going to sell them Chieftains back in the 70s, but backed out under (Arab?) pressure. The MkI began service late in '79.
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    That list, while not too recent, is still pretty accurate. Once Israel was making its own MBT's to meet its particular needs, there would be no reason to buy foreign MBTs.

    And yes, Egypt does have M1A1's, as well as apaches and F-16's.
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    Originally posted by Lord Avalon
    I thought they were on the Merkava MkIV.
    http://www.defense-update.com/directory/merkava4.htm

    Pretty amazing tank.

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    They don't have but considered buying it in 2004, about the same time Egypt made their purchase.
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    Probably the most important feature of the Merkava is that it was specifically designed to enhance crew survivability (thats why the engine is in front fer'instance) rather than improve firepower, maneuverability, etc. The israelis found during the 73 war that experienced tank crews were more valuable and much harder to replace than the tanks themselves. It came out a few years before the Abrams.
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    Does Israel use the M1 Abrams tank?

    Yes, but it switched its name to "Abrahams tank" as soon as it crossed the border.

    (rimshot)

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    Originally posted by SpencerH
    Probably the most important feature of the Merkava is that it was specifically designed to enhance crew survivability (thats why the engine is in front fer'instance) rather than improve firepower, maneuverability, etc. The israelis found during the 73 war that experienced tank crews were more valuable and much harder to replace than the tanks themselves. It came out a few years before the Abrams.
    Also moving the engine up enables the doors in the back, allowing the crew to enter and escape and resupply more easily. Though since the MkI they've improved the firepower and maneuverability.
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    Which is the best MBT anyway?
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    The T34 obviously
    We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
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    Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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    Originally posted by Lord Avalon

    Also moving the engine up enables the doors in the back, allowing the crew to enter and escape and resupply more easily. Though since the MkI they've improved the firepower and maneuverability.
    True enuff. I remember seeing early pics of it in late 79 early 80 in "Soldier of Fortune" (I think) or maybe a Janes publication. I certainly recall being impressed with the design concepts.
    We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
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    Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
    Which is the best MBT anyway?
    I would say the latest British, German, French, Israel, and the M1A2 are the best.

    None of the above have ever fought each other, so it would be hard to know. We do know that no Soviet/Russia tank has survived while fighting any of the above. Of course none of the Russian tanks had a Russian crew. All of the crews were Arabs.
    Last edited by Joseph; July 13, 2006 at 21:49.

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    Originally posted by SpencerH
    The T34 obviously
    You forgot the /serb

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    Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
    Which is the best MBT anyway?
    Depends on environment and mission.
    "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
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    Question

    Originally posted by Kuciwalker


    You forgot the /serb
    serb? I thought it had been AH.

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    I think we still have some M-60s though probably not in use.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we own several M1A1s for the kicks, but we don't rely on it or have a company based on it iirc.

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    I think we still have some M-60s though probably not in use.


    no regular units.

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    Probably for training.
    "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
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    Originally posted by Vince278


    Depends on environment and mission.
    BINGO!!!
    We have a winner!


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    Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
    Which is the best MBT anyway?
    This calls for a new thread.

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    Originally posted by Joseph
    I would say the latest British, German, French, Israel, and the M1A2 are the best.

    None of the above have ever fought each other, so it would be hard to know. We do know that no Soviet/Russia tank has survived while fighting any of the above. Of course none of the Russian tanks had a Russian crew. All of the crews were Arabs.

    Remind me when the latest British, German, French, Israeli and the M1A2 fought vs. the latest Soviet/Russian tanks.
    Iraqi T-72 (mostly produced by Iraqis themselves), had no Soviet/Russian crew, had no Soviet/Russian ammunition, had no Soviet/Russian electronics, had no Soviet/Russian maintenance and have not been used in accordance with Soviet/Russian doctrines, besides T-72 USSR sold to Iraq, were an export, CHEAPEST variant with different gun and no appropriate equipment, armor and ammunition to fight Abrams, they even didn't have a laser rangefinders). So Iraqi T-72 doesn't count. This variant of T-72 was not even intended to fight the latest American MBTs. You compare different generations of tanks.

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    Originally posted by Ecthy


    This calls for a new thread.
    Yes, the Poly surelly needs "Which is the best MBT" thread # 10348.

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    Originally posted by Serb
    BINGO!!!
    We have a winner!

    Thanks. I know what I'm doing in that area.

    Originally posted by Serb
    Yes, the Poly surelly needs "Which is the best MBT" thread # 10348.
    The last one was good.
    "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
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  30. #30
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    Iraqi T-72 (mostly produced by Iraqis themselves), had no Soviet/Russian crew, had no Soviet/Russian ammunition, had no Soviet/Russian electronics, had no Soviet/Russian maintenance and have not been used in accordance with Soviet/Russian doctrines


    I'm confused. Aren't those advantages?

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