I've caught them cheating again. Have you?

Will9 · July 3, 2006, 12:51

Recently during a war with Rome my workers were a good distance within my borders reparing damage. Once one worker was three squares behind my border and he is not on the coast. So there was no way they could have seen it and a gunship goes in my land and kills my worker. They had to have cheated to know were my worker was.

Qwertqwert · July 3, 2006, 12:57

He could have just been checking the area and seen your worker and decided to kill it.

Will9 · July 3, 2006, 13:01

They had no unit my land and their fighters were all attacking my units in their land.

Metaliturtle · July 3, 2006, 13:07

I think the AI is working exactly as programmed, and thus it did not cheat

Tattila the Hun · July 3, 2006, 13:08

Target of opportunity.

Stupid workers doing stuff by the border during war.

rah · July 3, 2006, 13:42

Maybe the gunship was scouting and got lucky.
I do it so it's not so unbelievable that the AI did.

DrSpike · July 3, 2006, 13:51

Except that it's been shown that the AI knows where to look.

Alexander I · July 3, 2006, 14:39

Originally posted by Metaliturtle
I think the AI is working exactly as programmed, and thus it did not cheat

Quite simply, the AI is prgrammed to be able to accomplish things that a human player cannot do in order to keep up with the human's ingenuity.

Dauphin · July 3, 2006, 14:48

When judgement day comes and AIs, computers and robots attempt to take out humanity in a global war of extermination they will be in for a big shock when they come across the alien concept known to many a gamer as 'fog of war'.

DrSpike · July 3, 2006, 14:50

They will also wonder where their production bonuses went.

Blake · July 3, 2006, 15:23

Yup. The AI cheats.
Mostly it tries to hide it though.

Badtz Maru · July 3, 2006, 16:43

We don't know nearly enough about this scenario to know if it was truly cheating. There's several possible explanations.

The gunship might have had the promotion that increases visibility range and been on a hill.

The worker may have been within the visual range of a city with a religion the AI founded.

The worker may have been within the visual range of a spy or a submarine.

The gunship may have been heading that direction anyway and saw the worker after crossing the border (probably the most likely).

The only thing I've seen that makes me think the AI may 'cheat' is when it suggests what appears to be an inferior city site that turns out to be the perfect site after later resources are discovered. I've also never seen the AI recomend a city site on a square with a special resource that turns up later. That's not quite cheating, though, as the human has the benefit of this too.

Nugog · July 3, 2006, 16:48

Originally posted by Blake
Yup. The AI cheats.
Mostly it tries to hide it though.

I've seen it do a couple of curly things before, but nothing that really distracts from the game.

I do think that the AI "knows" where your troops are though.

Badtz Maru · July 3, 2006, 16:50

I thought of another way the AI might have known the worker was there - the AI might have had an air unit perform a recon flight over the area - that reveals a LOT of area.

I don't understand why everyone is so quick to assume that the AI had to have known the worker was there before crossing the border, though. Workers usually build improvements near cities. Gunships often head towards cities to pillage improvements near them. I think the most likely option is that the gunship was heading that way already...there's been MANY times when I sent a fast unit into enemy territory and then saw a target of opportunity like that.

Dauphin · July 3, 2006, 17:05

If it was an isolated occurence, sure it may have been scouted out. However experience has shown time and time again that the AI always knows exactly the best place to go to get the undefended city or worker units.

DrSpike · July 3, 2006, 17:13

Originally posted by Dauphin
If it was an isolated occurence, sure it may have been scouted out. However experience has shown time and time again that the AI always knows exactly the best place to go to get the undefended city or worker units.

QFT.

Will9 · July 3, 2006, 20:53

I do not think AI would have gone all the way around a city to pillage a square. Some people have said things that go against my previous posts. It wasn't on the coast and their two figters had attacked my units. If it was a spy I can't be sure, but alot of people hate me in that game and I have never caught their spies.

Will9 · July 3, 2006, 21:31

Also the religions practiced in Rome are Judism and Christianity. Both of the holy cities are in my land, so religion was not how they saw me. Which that made me relize that I could only the cities that are Jewish (which is my state religion). Does anyone know why.

Urban Ranger · July 3, 2006, 23:00

Originally posted by rah
Maybe the gunship was scouting and got lucky.
I do it so it's not so unbelievable that the AI did.

Yup, I do the same thing. Fly gunships in to see if there are things I can kill.

Urban Ranger · July 3, 2006, 23:03

Originally posted by Dauphin
If it was an isolated occurence, sure it may have been scouted out. However experience has shown time and time again that the AI always knows exactly the best place to go to get the undefended city or worker units.

Since you probably don't know how many planes/gunships the computer player has been flying through your airspace, this is quite an assertion to make.

johnmcd · July 4, 2006, 03:51

I'm not convinced this is cheating, but even if it were, surely you must realise you are capable of making better decisions than the AI if the same limited data was available to you both, so there really is no harm as I see it in letting the AI make its decisions based on a little more data.

That's not to say I believe that's what happened here.

Addled Platypus · July 4, 2006, 05:33

mainly at war

I look at the units inside a city I plan on sieging.
Once I am at the door, presto changeo, multiple units change to the best defensive unit.

Even when attacking multiple cities on the same turn.

hmmmm....

fani · July 4, 2006, 07:23

Let me be the devils advocate...

The human players also cheat by exploiting the known weaknesses of the AI player and that is the reason why we can still beat them but...............

The era of the machines is coming, our doom is inevitable...

johnmcd · July 4, 2006, 08:52

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Will9
Also the religions practiced in Rome are Judism and Christianity. Both of the holy cities are in my land, so religion was not how they saw me. Which that made me relize that I could only the cities that are Jewish (which is my state religion). Does anyone know why. [/QUOTE}

To be honest, questions like this do throw into questions the accuracy of some of your other observations.

Will9 · July 4, 2006, 09:09

Originally posted by johnmcd

To be honest, questions like this do throw into questions the accuracy of some of your other observations.

What is that supposed to mean?

-SafaN- · July 4, 2006, 11:09

that if u didn't notice yet that for seeing the cities of a religion u need both the holy city and the state religion, that u are not realy aware of the finer rules of the game, and so the observations u describe might be also a little inaccurate

Jaybe · July 4, 2006, 12:47

Originally posted by Platypus Rex
I look at the units inside a city I plan on sieging.
Once I am at the door, presto changeo, multiple units change to the best defensive unit.

If I didn't upgrading my units as soon as I could, and ...
I were suddenly invaded by an AI, and ...
I had the funds for massive upgrades, then
that AI would certainly find itself in the same situation as you did.

BTW, the AI upgrade rates are a real bargain (30% of the player's at Noble).
OTOH, the player (again, at Noble) pays only 50% for unit maintenance as the AI.

Q: So, who's "cheating"?
A: Nobody.

Will9 · July 4, 2006, 13:09

Sorry. I usally take holy cities when the religion is minor and surprese the religion with therocracy, or I take the holy city after most the cities with that religion are mine.

Dauphin · July 4, 2006, 14:40

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Since you probably don't know how many planes/gunships the computer player has been flying through your airspace, this is quite an assertion to make.

You think this behaviour is limited to planes and gunships?

I've seen many units beeline for the least defended/undefended city rather than the well defended one, even though the quantity of defence is unknown in both, a disproportionate number of times. It can lead to useful honeypotting.

DrSpike · July 4, 2006, 19:05

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Since you probably don't know how many planes/gunships the computer player has been flying through your airspace, this is quite an assertion to make.

Stop arguing UR - Dauphin is right.