What is the truth?

Jon Miller · June 25, 2006, 20:54

Throughout history there seems to be two competing, great ideas. One is that by naming your enemy, you gain power over them. The other is that by naming your enemy, they gain power over you.

You can see this in fiction of all types, and very explicitly in speculative fiction (but you can see it in more mainstream lit, like books by Melville for example).

Stories I have read suggest that both ideas have been arround for a long time, and both have found many proponents. By enemy I don't neccesarily mean a person, I could also mean a thing (the whole being to thy own self be true is naming your enemy..).

While lit. seems to overall be in favor of naming your enemy, it seems that in general life many many (the majority?) of people at all ages of the world have considered that in naming their enemies, that that gives their enemies power over them.

So now I ask apolyton, what is your oppinion on this?

Jon Miller
(famous example of this in speculative fiction is LoTR, but it is in all sorts of other speculative fiction, including that which isn't derivative)

reds4ever · June 25, 2006, 21:03

Have you been drinking?

Jon Miller · June 25, 2006, 21:05

Err, no. I have been thinking.

Jon Miller

Vesayen · June 25, 2006, 21:09

I don't mean to be rude(really) but I'd also like, to confirm this.

Have you been drinking?

The act of naming your enemies ITSELF has no inherant power, but depending on the situation and the relationship between the two of you, it may be advantagous to one, the other, or both.

I really can't imagine any other answer....

Jon Miller · June 25, 2006, 21:15

It's a meta concept.

Or a metacept.

Jon Miller

Vesayen · June 25, 2006, 21:16

There is no relation. Magic does not exist and really, that is the only relationship which could be described besides the one I outlined.....

joncha · June 25, 2006, 21:16

lol let's find out LOL

I, joncha, hereby name Vesayen as my enemy.

Kuciwalker · June 25, 2006, 21:17

If you are sneaking through the bushes with a knife, and you name him, it gives him power because he knows to duck. If he's sneaking through the bushes with a knife, naming him probably gives you power because he could reveal himself accidentally.

reds4ever · June 25, 2006, 21:18

Originally posted by joncha

I, joncha, hereby name Vesayen as my enemy.

"Vesayen levels up"

Vesayen · June 25, 2006, 21:21

Originally posted by reds4ever

"Vesayen levels up"

Dun da da da da dun da dun!

Jon Miller · June 25, 2006, 21:22

I think you all aren't being meta enough.. think about the non-speculative fiction I said. Like Melville or Shakespeare.

Jon Miller

Jon Miller · June 25, 2006, 21:23

obviously things like magic (in speculative fiction) are just tools to get concepts across..

JM

Donegeal · June 25, 2006, 21:28

It all depends on the person doing the naming. Its a personal thing. Are you more afraid of the enemy because the enemy knows they are the enemy, or do you feel less afraid because you know who it is?

DanS · June 25, 2006, 21:32

Originally posted by Vesayen
Dun da da da da dun da dun!

Whatever, Fran.

Ari Rahikkala · June 25, 2006, 21:49

There is no enemy
anywhere

Jon Miller · June 25, 2006, 22:27

err, enemy doesn't neccearily equal a person...

JM

OzzyKP · June 25, 2006, 22:36

Harry Potter books believe that you should not name your enemy.

"He who shall not be named." = Lord Voldemort

I don't really have anything else to add.

Skanky Burns · June 25, 2006, 22:37

You can name races as an enemy in D&D and get all sorts of bonuses against them.

Darsnan · June 25, 2006, 22:41

Truth is Truth, and Reality is a perception based issue: if you are able to change a person's perspective, then you are able to change the Reality in which they live.

D

Jon Miller · June 25, 2006, 22:45

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Harry Potter books believe that you should not name your enemy.

"He who shall not be named." = Lord Voldemort

I don't really have anything else to add.

Err, that is what the wizards beleif. I think that there is some idea in the books that that might be the wrong idea..

But that is another example (in speculative fiction) of the idea.

Jon Miller

joncha · June 25, 2006, 22:54

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
You can name races as an enemy in D&D and get all sorts of bonuses against them.

Only in the munchkin edition.

Skanky Burns · June 25, 2006, 23:02

Is there any other kind?

joncha · June 25, 2006, 23:04

Guynemer · June 25, 2006, 23:07

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Harry Potter books believe that you should not name your enemy.

"He who shall not be named." = Lord Voldemort

Those that live in fear say that. The Harry, Dumbledore, Sirius, Lupin, etc. do not.

Skanky Burns · June 25, 2006, 23:08

/me does the +4 munchkin dance

I'll keep my +5's in reserve.

Jon Miller · June 25, 2006, 23:34

Originally posted by Guynemer

Those that live in fear say that. The Harry, Dumbledore, Sirius, Lupin, etc. do not.

Yeah, I think that might be part of one of the points (of the naming your enemy gives you power over them side).

Jon Miller

Imran Siddiqui · June 25, 2006, 23:41

That'd be a different 'naming' of the enemy. Everyone has named Voldemort as the enemy, just a lot of them don't want to say his name

.

Kuciwalker · June 25, 2006, 23:42

Harry Potter threadjack

Flip McWho · June 26, 2006, 02:25

Reply to OP;

Well it depends really, if naming your enemy gives you a distinct identity to fit with it may become easier to plan your battles and secure your victories. However, if naming your enemy reveals weaknesses to your enemy then name you should not

In most books you'll find that the common masses fear using the name yet the heroes do not. Naming your enemy is associated with bravery but only when the time is right.