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Thread: Mission accomplished: "Death to America" and "Death to Karzai".

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    Mission accomplished: "Death to America" and "Death to Karzai".

    US faces new challenge after riots in Kabul puncture illusion of calm

    · Traffic accident sets off worst upheaval since 2001
    · Karzai appeals to citizens to 'stand up' to agitators

    Declan Walsh
    Tuesday May 30, 2006
    The Guardian


    An early morning traffic accident in Kabul involving a US military vehicle rapidly degenerated yesterday into the worst upheaval in the Afghan capital since the fall of the Taliban, as angry protesters burned vehicles and buildings, ransacked shops and aid agencies and hurled rocks and invective at American soldiers.
    By the time the authorities imposed a rare night-time curfew in the normally peaceable capital, eight people had been killed and more than 100 injured. The upheaval was a shock to a city long considered an oasis of security, and a serious blow to the authority of the president, Hamid Karzai, who is struggling to contain an escalating insurgency in the south.

    It was also an alarming day for an American military, already battling large-scale violence in Iraq and squaring up to an emboldened and nuclear-minded Iran. Now the future of Afghanistan, often trumpeted as a triumph for US foreign policy, is coming under increasing scrutiny.

    Yesterday the US-led coalition said it killed up to 50 Taliban fighters in a bombing raid on a village in Helmand province, where 3,300 British troops are deploying. The air strikes took the death toll from the past two weeks to more than 350, according to the highest estimates.

    The trouble in Kabul was triggered by an accident involving a US military convoy that careered through a busy Kabul intersection yesterday morning, crashing into a dozen vehicles and killing one person, according to a military statement. But accounts differed about whether American troops fired into a large crowd that gathered. A spokeswoman, Lieutenant Tamara Lawrence, said US soldiers only fired shots in the air. But a senior Kabul police office, Sher Shah Usafi, said they fired into the crowd, killing one person.

    British Royal Marines, stationed in Afghanistan, rescued EU diplomats after the riots broke out. They escorted 21 people including a baby and a four-year-old child to the headquarters of the Nato-led Isaf peacekeeping force as mobs swept through the city. The marines acted after members of the European Commission to Afghanistan requested evacuation from their compound in central Kabul.

    Afghan police and soldiers rapidly deployed as rioters smashed police posts, flung rocks at US Humvee troop carriers and marched on the presidential palace, some chanting "death to America!" Vehicles were set ablaze, businesses ransacked and aid agencies looted. Residents cowered inside their homes until a measure of calm returned in the late afternoon.

    In a televised address last night Mr Karzai appealed to Afghans' painful memories of the country's destructive civil war in the 1990s in a call for people to "stand up" to the rioters. "These people are the enemies of Afghanistan," he said. "You should stand up against these agitators and not let them destroy our country again."

    Yet the rioting reflected the simmering anger that many Afghans harbour at everything from the slow pace of reconstruction to the conspicuous wealth of foreigners in Kabul and the aggressive driving tactics of US soldiers and private security contractors in the capital.

    The US says the tactics are necessary for security, but one protester, Gulam Ghaus, told the Associated Press: "Americans killed innocent people. We will not stop until foreigners leave this city. We are looking for foreigners to kill."

    The disturbances spread quickly to central districts frequented by foreigners and close to American and Nato military bases. Protesters tore down a billboard poster of Mr Karzai, burned a US flag and torched the offices of the aid agency Care International. "I'm pretty shaken," said Care's director, Paul Barker, speaking to the Guardian by telephone from inside the US embassy. "About half our office has been burned and everything inside destroyed."

    He said anger at the road accident may have sparked the initial trouble, but "simmering anger against foreign influence" caused the wider violence. "There's a lot of resentment against the perceived wealth of foreigners," he said. Despite $12bn (£6.5bn) in western aid since the fall of the Taliban in 2001, many Afghans are disillusioned with the government for failing to reduce poverty and restore security. The Nato-led peacekeeping force is responsible for security in Kabul, but a spokesman said Afghan troops insisted on taking the lead in quelling yesterday's violence. "The police didn't want further Isaf or coalition troops inflaming the situation," said Major Toby Jackman.

    An Afghan parliamentarian, Shukria Barakzai, said some rioters appeared to be well organised. "Some had guns and handbombs," she said. "These people are taking advantage of the situation for political ends, to destroy our country again."

    Anger at civilian casualties from US bomb strikes may also have fuelled the rioting. Last week the US military admitted that it killed 16 villagers during an air strike on a Taliban hideout in Kandahar province. Local human rights activists estimated the death toll as high as 34.

    When American troops arrived in 2001, they aroused hopes among Afghans for an end to gnawing poverty and incessant violence. Today, many say they are bitterly disappointed

    After four years and $12bn, £6.5bn, in foreign aid, the majority of Afghans still scrape through life without electricity or clean water. More than seven million people are chronically hungry, according to the UN, and 53% live on less than a dollar, or 54p, a day. The sight of foreigners earning large salaries and driving large vehicles protected by private security companies has focused frustrations. More recently, a spate of civilian deaths in US anti-Taliban bombing has aroused public anger in a country with a history of violently ejecting foreign occupiers. The government and its western backers argue that, since reconstruction started from an impossibly low base, much progress has been made. The west and north are peaceful, smooth roads stretch through the countryside, and the economy is projected to grow by 10% this year. A record number of children attend school. But faith in the Karzai government, dogged by violence in the south and allegations of corruption in Kabul, is faltering.

    Many Afghans believe their $12bn in aid has been squandered or stolen.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanista...785599,00.html
    'Tragic accident'

    The unrest began after a US military vehicle apparently lost control and smashed into at least 12 civilian cars during morning rush-hour in Kabul's northern suburbs.

    Coalition spokesman Col Thomas Collins said a large cargo truck in the US convoy had suffered a mechanical failure, hitting the cars at a busy junction.

    "This was a tragic accident and we deeply regret any deaths or injuries resulting from this incident," he said, adding that a full investigation was under way.

    Hundreds of Afghans gathered after the accident, chanting "Death to America" and "Death to Karzai".

    They pelted the US military vehicles with stones before scattering when the shooting began.
    Some eyewitnesses say the US troops shot at protesters, while others say it was the Afghan police, who had come to the aid of the under-siege convoy. Some say it was both.

    The US military said there were "indications" that at least one of the vehicles in the convoy "fired warning shots over the crowd".
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5028416.stm
    Independent Afghani Arman-e Melli paper:

    Even though the coalition spokesman called what happened yesterday a traffic accident caused by technical problems in the vehicles, some eyewitnesses say that the main cause of the incident was the recklessness of the troops and the fact that they were drunk.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5029120.stm
    Hey, LOTM, I remember a year or so ago, you were telling remarkable stories about perfectly pacified and happy Afghanistan. Are you still optimistic/have any other wonderful tales about rapidly recovering America-loving Afghanistan?

  2. #2
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    I think some Republicans would demand a link to a more creditable source than Guardian and BBC.

    From US-pravda.com:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197370,00.html
    Afghans Riot After Deadly U.S. Truck Accident
    Tuesday, May 30, 2006

    KABUL, Afghanistan — A deadly traffic accident Monday involving U.S. troops sparked the worst rioting in the Afghan capital since the fall of the Taliban regime, with hundreds of protesters looting shops and shouting "Death to America!" At least eight people were killed and 107 injured, an official said.

    Hundreds of Afghan army troops and NATO peacekeepers in tanks were deployed around the city, as chanting protesters marched on the presidential palace and rioters smashed police guard boxes, set fire to police cars and ransacked buildings, including the compound of aid group CARE International. Computers were set on fire and smoke billowed from the buildings, according to an Associated Press reporter.

    Witnesses said that Afghan and U.S. troops opened fire to quell protesters. A U.S. spokesman said American troops shot into the air, and AP Television News video showed a machine gun on a Humvee firing over the crowd as the vehicle sped away. But a Kabul police chief said U.S. troops had fired into the crowd.

    The AP reporter saw several demonstrators pull a man who appeared to be a Westerner from a civilian vehicle and beat him. The man escaped and ran to a line of police, who fired shots over the heads of the demonstrators.

    The spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition expressed regret for any deaths and injuries, and said there would be an investigation. Afghan President Hamid Karzai appealed for calm, branding rioters "agitators" and saying in a national address that Afghans must stand against those who loot and destroy property.

    "We will recognize as the enemy of Afghanistan these people who do these things," he said in the televised speech. "Again, you should stand up against these agitators and not let them destroy our country again."

    The government imposed a 10 p.m.-to-4 a.m. curfew in the capital, the Interior Ministry announced.

    A purported Taliban spokesman, Mohammed Hanif, accused U.S. troops of firing on people and said that showed that "Americans consider the whole Afghan nation as their enemies."

    Hanif claims to speak for the hard-line militia but his links to its leadership are unclear. He phoned an AP reporter in Pakistan by satellite phone from an undisclosed location.

    Abdullah Fahim, a Health Ministry spokesman, said that eight bodies were brought to hospitals in Kabul and 107 more Afghans were treated for injuries.

    He said there were no foreigners among the wounded or dead. He had no details on how the casualties occurred, and it wasn't immediately clear if the toll included people from the traffic accident.

    The riot was the worst in Kabul since U.S.-led forces ousted the Taliban in late 2001. It erupted in the city's northern suburbs before spreading into the city center and then to other areas frequented by foreigners, including areas near U.S. and NATO bases.

    The unrest started after three U.S. Humvee vehicles coming into the city from the outskirts rammed into a rush-hour traffic jam, hitting several civilian cars, witnesses said.

    The coalition said at least one person was killed and six injured in the crash, but police said at least three people were killed and 16 injured.

    A Kabul police chief, Sher Shah Usafi, said another person was killed when U.S. troops fired into a crowd of stone-throwing protesters soon after the crash.

    Col. Thomas Collins, a coalition spokesman, confirmed there was gunfire at the scene, but said coalition personnel in one military vehicle only fired over the crowd.

    He said a large cargo truck in a coalition convoy had suffered a mechanical failure and hit as many as 12 civilian vehicles at a busy intersection. He said the coalition was investigating.

    "This was a tragic incident and we deeply regret any deaths or injuries resulting from this incident," Collins said in a statement. "We will determine the facts regarding the incident and cooperate fully with Afghan authorities."

    Afghans often complain about what they call the aggressive driving tactics of the U.S. military. Convoys often pass through crowded areas at high speed and sometimes disregard road rules. The U.S. military says such tactics are necessary to protect the troops from attack.

    "Today's demonstration is because Americans killed innocent people. We will not stop until foreigners leave the city. We are looking for foreigners to kill," one protester in his late 20s, Gulam Ghaus, said near where rioters burned a police post.

    AP Television News video showed hundreds of angry young men hurling rocks at what appeared to be three U.S. military trucks and three dun-colored Humvees as they sped from the area after the crash, their windshields cracked by the stones. A machine gun mounted on one of the Humvees fired into the air over the crowd as the vehicle sped away.

    The riot continued for hours into the afternoon.

    AP reporters heard several 20-second bursts of heavy automatic gunfire coming from the direction of the U.S. Embassy. It subsided but gunfire was then heard sporadically.

    Staff at the U.S. Embassy were moved to a secure location within the heavily fortified building, said Chris Harris, an embassy spokesman. He had no immediate information on the reported gunfire.

    In other areas, rioters broke into shops and stole household items. There were unconfirmed reports from protesters that rioters also smashed windows at the five-star Serena Hotel in the city center, popular with foreign visitors.

    An AP Television News cameraman and an AP reporter were beaten by protesters but not hurt.

    Riots targeting foreigners have broken out before in Kabul, including during the furor early this year over cartoons published in European newspapers of the Prophet Muhammad. Also, last year, a magazine report that U.S. interrogators had sullied Islam's holy book at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay sparked anti-U.S. demonstrations around Afghanistan. In each case, about a dozen people died in the unrest nationwide.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,197370,00.html

  3. #3
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    Well, discuss.

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    It's barely 8am on the east coast of the US. Goddamn, let them finish their first cup of coffee before you start barking orders at them.
    The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

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    Oops, sorry It's 7:00 pm here.

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    Ted Striker
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    Yah Serb they gotta watch Fox New morning report while eating breakfast and then Rush Limbaugh on the way to work

    "Let the People know the facts and the country will be saved." Abraham Lincoln

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    DinoDoc
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    Serb must still be pissed we weren't kicked out of the country years ago.
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
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    Aint no better way to start the morning Ted.

    Serb, its nothing. Just some hooligans and criminal gangs making trouble. The American trucks accident seems to have been a mechanical failure too, so its not intentional. Hopefully everything will come down soon.
    Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

    - Paul Valery

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    Originally posted by DinoDoc
    Serb must still be pissed we weren't kicked out of the country years ago.
    Not at all.
    If you were kicked out of the country years ago, I would rank US military somewhere between the Ukranian Special Chemical platoon and the Mighty Army of Congo Firefarts.

    Luckily for you, I rank your army much higher. But anyway, we controled the country for a decade and have not seen such riots in its capital. You've spent there five years, and it looks like now you can't even handle with Kabul alone, not to mention the rest of Afghanistan.
    So, keep sh!tting yourself about your success where Soviets failed.
    Last edited by Serb; May 30, 2006 at 08:45.

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    Originally posted by laurentius


    Aint no better way to start the morning Ted.

    Serb, its nothing. Just some hooligans and criminal gangs making trouble. The American trucks accident seems to have been a mechanical failure too, so its not intentional. Hopefully everything will come down soon.
    Yeah, right
    Watch Foxnews, follow the chosen one!
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    DinoDoc
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    4/10

    The predictability knocks it down
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    laurentius
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    Sorry we dont get Fox in Finland Serb. We get Voice of Russia though.
    Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

    - Paul Valery

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    Originally posted by DinoDoc
    4/10

    The predictability knocks it down
    Wow, my stock is going up. Last time it was 1/10 or something.

  14. #14
    Serb
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    Originally posted by laurentius
    Sorry we ont get Fox in Finland Serb. We get Voice of Russia though.

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    laurentius
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    We also get the Waste of Russia and Radiation of Russia too
    Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

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    Anything else you get from Russia?


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    laurentius
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    I think the rest is baltika and vodka. What else do you have?
    Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

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    laurentius
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    We get the jokes as well. These are actually pretty good.

    A guy wanted to work in the Kremlin. So he called there. A secretary answered.

    "I want to work in the Politbyro"

    "Are you insane?"

    "Is that necessary?"
    Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

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  20. #20
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    Originally posted by laurentius
    I think the rest is baltika and vodka. What else do you have?

    I have three Baltikas with me, right now.

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    Serb
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    Originally posted by laurentius
    We get the jokes as well. These are actually pretty good.

    A guy wanted to work in the Kremlin. So he called there. A secretary answered.

    "I want to work in the Politbyro"

    "Are you insane?"

    "Is that necessary?"
    Did he call from Helsinki or something? If so, that explains a lot.

  22. #22
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    I mean, for that guy a 15 years period isn't enough to realize that Politburo is no more. So he's gonna be from one of the Baltic states.
    Last edited by Serb; May 30, 2006 at 09:10.

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    No no this was during the Soviet time. Its a Russian joke. Havent you heard it?
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    laurentius
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    Originally posted by Serb


    I have three Baltikas with me, right now.
    Its good to see you drinking Finnish beer
    Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

    - Paul Valery

  25. #25
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    Since when a beer brewed in Leningrad became a Finnish beer?

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    Originally posted by laurentius
    No no this was during the Soviet time. Its a Russian joke. Havent you heard it?
    No, but I know a lot of jokes about the Balts.

  27. #27
    lord of the mark
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    Lets see, theres an elected govt. The North and west of country is quiet. And essentially under central govt control, with the warlords tamed. Even in the Pashtun South and East the problems are mainly limited to 3 or 4 provinces. And some of the problems are due to the central govt disbanding militias, and asserting greater authority in the Pashtun provinces. And to cracking down on opium growing. So theres a riot in Kabul - this is still a third world country, excuse me.

    And there are barely 10,000 US troops there.

    I suspect the Soviet commanders in Afghanistan in the '80s would have given alot to have a situation like this.


    But its not perfect. In particular there is still support for the Taliban coming from across the border in Pakistan. Maybe the situation would be better if we werent in Iraq, and were in more position to pressure the Paki govt. Maybe. But thats a different issue. The fact is this is big news, as is the Taliban spring "offensive" mainly in CONTRAST to how quiet things have been there.
    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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    Originally posted by Serb
    You've spent there five years, and it looks like now you can't even handle with Kabul alone, not to mention the rest of Afghanistan.
    So, keep sh!tting yourself about your success where Soviets failed.

    No you didnt have riots in Kabul. Massacring rioters in Herat probably did a prettty good job of deterring riots in Kabul. In any case Kabul was the center of support for the Afghan Communist party, and the one place in the country where your suppor was strongest. Meanwhile the insurgents tended to control parts of Herat and Kandahar, not to mention almost the entire countryside. Even the Panshir Valley close to Kabul, where you launched offensive after offensive.


    But the Karzai govt is a democratic govt, and doent massacre rioters. So riots happen. This doesnt mean Kabul is outside govt control.

    There were riots in Teheran the other day, and in Tabriz - are those cities outside the control of the govt of Iran?
    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

  29. #29
    VetLegion
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    Originally posted by lord of the mark But its not perfect. In particular there is still support for the Taliban coming from across the border in Pakistan. Maybe the situation would be better if we werent in Iraq
    Don't you think Afghanistan is relatively peaceful precisely because Iraq is "where it's at" at the moment? If you didn't go to Iraq all the foreigners in Iraq would probably be fighting you in Afghanistan.

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    lord of the mark
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    Reuters

    "It is peaceful, there is no violence," said Mohammad Shafiq Fazli, Kabul's deputy police chief, as the city awoke from a night-long curfew.

    FORCES DEPLOYED

    Heavily armed soldiers and armoured personnel carriers were stationed at key crossroads, and police quick reaction forces were deployed at Kabul University, where a planned student protest fizzled out.

    By mid-morning, the city was bustling with people, and cars jammed the roads as usual, though residents had initially appeared cautious about venturing out"
    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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