Reply With QuoteIt's not a bug, I wouldn't advise it - you get two less morale points, and sooner or later you would build those anyway.
I'm in the middle of a very interesting Transcend game. I've picked Santiago for a change, and ended up in a very large continent all by myself (well, it's a Huge map).
So I ended up playing as a Builder, again.
Now, it's been calm (until now) and fun!
I'm using support and police to build my infrastructure without troubles, I've made just a couple of Two-Turns-Long PopBooms... now I'm relying on MASSIVE food resources to grow.
I'm running Police State+Green+Knowledge (my reaserch was truly slow, before that), and it works amazingly!
(well, right now everyone is sending planes and even copters against me, seems I'll have to arrange some treaties in order to survive...)
Now, a question: I haven't played for a while, and I've been surprised by the fact that I CAN build Jets even in a base WITHOUT aerospace complex... I was sure they were required... I don't have the Cloudbase Academy or anything.
Is this a bug, or was my memory severely hurt?
It's not a bug, I wouldn't advise it - you get two less morale points, and sooner or later you would build those anyway.
If you're being attacked i'd say start cranking out those aircraft, the fact you're running police lets you support them, green means no pacifism and knowledge lets you use the Spartans +2morale for instant veteran noodles. Getting the CBA quickly will make your choppers great but don't hold off building noodles until you get MMI.
ps, aerospace complexes are required to build orbital improvements (nut sats etc) which maybe what you remember.
Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.
IIR Aero complexes have the most numerous features, i.e.:
1) They give +2 Morale bonus to air units
2) They heal air units in one turn
3) They confer +100% bonus when defending against air unit
4) They render the base and its vicinity immune to air drop
5) They allow to build orbital improvements
6) They allow to get the full benefit from orbital improvements
Quite an impressive list, which is why CBA is so a powerful SP, and it gets banned in many PBEMs.
Also +2 range to air units
Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.
Nope, the Cloudbase Academy gives that.
Yeah, abit vague but i was referring to that when he mentioned why CBA is so powerful
Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.
Yeah, thanx, now I remember how it works!
It's a shame many features of the game are undocumented.
About the game, I have an issue playing as a builder. It ALWAYS comes to a point where everyone sends jets against me, sometimes in a STORM that destroys my entire infrastructure (I mean Crawlers and formers, mostly).
The first times it was scary, now I know that with some patience I can overcome such a situation and rebuild my robo-workers later (since I'm probably starting the fight with a superior economy)
But... it IS annoying! It takes me a lot of turns to come out of this situation, and it always plays the same way.
I would like to experience something different now and then.
Should I try NOT to climb the powergraph?
Is it the only way to get a different interaction with the AI Factions?
Try playing on a huge map...
Seriously, if your enemies are close enough to reach you with air units, you're simply forced to get some interceptors in place. Remember, they don't produce any pacifist drones under FM, as long as they don't leave your borders.
It's also very important to learn how to fight wars under FM (a true builder simply must run FM as long as possible). The easier way is to build a pop 1 base, rehome several crawlers there (one is enough if you use clean units, but I don't recommend that), crawl some mins and make the worker a doctor. Then you can rehome a number of jets there and use them freely for preemptive strikes against enemy bases containing noodles.
The more difficult way is to get AMA and build Punishment Spheres in bases you want to rehome your attack units to. More suitable for bigger wars.
You can also get a probe team and buy an enemy base with air units. Works best with small bases distant from HQ, but containing large forces.
I remember also some people using SAM rovers, but personally I haven't ever been forced to do that.
Finally, you can manually discourage AIs to build air power, via scenario editor.
I am on a huge map, but populated continents are close...Try playing on a huge map...
Seriously, if your enemies are close enough to reach you with air units, you're simply forced to get some interceptors in place. Remember, they don't produce any pacifist drones under FM, as long as they don't leave your borders.
I would like to avoid that kind of attack, or at least reduce the number of planes that manage to pass the borders, since it is VERY annoying having to rebuild robo-workers all the time.
Maybe using extensive ship-patrolling, with SAM units?
What are the common strategies (if any?)
Well, I actually don't use FM, usually. Tried once as Morgan. I know everyone talks about how powerful it is, but as you say, to overcome its flaws you need almost cheesy tactics (or beat up your own population..) and this doesn't suit me well.It's also very important to learn how to fight wars under FM (a true builder simply must run FM as long as possible). The easier way is to build a pop 1 base, rehome several crawlers there (one is enough if you use clean units, but I don't recommend that), crawl some mins and make the worker a doctor. Then you can rehome a number of jets there and use them freely for preemptive strikes against enemy bases containing noodles.
Probably it's just lack of experience, yet...
They are very effective if you have a decent roads-net... especially because they can attack more than once, something Interceptors can't do.I remember also some people using SAM rovers, but personally I haven't ever been forced to do that.
BUT, you still hit after having your infrastructure damaged, and this is not good...
If you're not running FM then the simplest defense is a good offense. Capture any AI bases within range of your core bases that are using crawlers.
Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.
Yep, that is annoying - my recipe is to have a fleet of choppers to take them out when they are back at their bases.
If they have areospace complexes, destroy them with probe teams.
Tougher AA units I usually take out with a missile.guess there soon will be others saying that this is a waste, too costly, inefficient etc - well, if you reserve them for the tough nuts, it's not so bad.
Done right, each chopper can destroy several planes every second turn
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
A minor addendum. Same tools are very effective combined with drop units (rovers, heavy defense and probes) to get rid of nearby colonies - especially if the faction is building PB's - maybe I'm just weired, but I'm not that glad to have such in firing range of my core
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
Hei, I didn't think about that!If they have areospace complexes, destroy them with probe teams.
I'll try next time.
Choppers also are good of course, but by the time I get them, I usually have had to rebuild my infrastructure once or twice...
Don't let AIs outtech you to it. If need be, you can always skip the EnvEco part and rush to MMI. For Spartans with CBA and CF any war with AIs should be a cakewalk.Originally posted by Littiz
Hei, I didn't think about that!
I'll try next time.
Choppers also are good of course, but by the time I get them, I usually have had to rebuild my infrastructure once or twice...
As Kirov says, don't get behind in tech. Use the energy slider aggresively (no, don't hit it- just check it often).
Oh, a little notice - not all factions has a linear connection between optimum research and energy allocation - IIRC, f.ex. the drones sometimes get better research by reducing allocation - no, no magic just truncation when spreading allocation in the individual cities.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
Hm, Zak IS outteching me... but so far I could well handle him (I even lost CBA to him, damn it)Don't let AIs outtech you to it. If need be, you can always skip the EnvEco part and rush to MMI. For Spartans with CBA and CF any war with AIs should be a cakewalk.
The usual annoyance really is related to jets.
Even if I have them already, I always incur in that "storm" type of attack which ends after some turns with the result that I have to rebuild dozens of crawlers and formers!
Anyway, I've got +2 support through the Living Refinery (IIRC), and... my!!!
I was stunned!
I never reached +4 support on the SE table before...
And now I see the benefits of playing Santiago as a builder... with 15 sized cities, I can assign 15 free units each!
I'm for some conquest now, it seems
There's a number of tricks you can use against the AI to prevent air harrassment of your infrastructure units.
First, interceptors. Scrambling interceptors don't enjoy huge advantages in combat with incoming needles, but they can cover a large area, and with your native bonus to morale, you'll likely win more than you lose, and the loss of an interceptor is much easier to stomach than the loss of a crawler or former (from a turn-advantage point of view).
Second, create an armored crawler/former unit with AAA, and upgrade one unit in each stack to that design. That, coupled with a sensor beacon will render your units more or less immune to air harrassment. It's somewhat expensive, but a fairly permanent solution.
Third, locate and decimate the offending sortie bases that support the aircraft hitting you.
PS: Firefly RULES. Browncoats forever.
He won't be able to build a AAA crawler / former if he is playing with unmodified rules.
He's got the Midas touch.
But he touched it too much!
Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!
Then the option is to add an AA troop over some vulnerable crawlers. Sometimes I do this if I can create a perimeter but more usual for me is to just fo kill the bases that are sending the darn thingsOriginally posted by Sikander
He won't be able to build a AAA crawler / former if he is playing with unmodified rules.
I tend to like to deal with this issue in the first place by building the bulk of my crawler infrastructre in my interior but sometime you don't have that option. Against the AI I HATE having hostile bases anywhere nearby, so kill,kill, kill is my best option
Yes, yes, I should point out that my recommendations do not appear in any particular order. Crushing the offending bases is by far the most preferrable solution.
Some Spartan-only related remarks:
1) Santiago can run Police State / FM and she will not get Pacifism drones! And Knowledge is very helpful with it's +1 Efficiency.
It's a faction particularity that should be pointed out IMHO!
2) Any faction with Police State / Living Refinery except Morgan will get +4 support... this has nothing to do with Santiago...
Ugh. I hate running FM with the Spartans. Your efficiency penalties eat too much of your profits, and you lose the drone-quelling joy of your high police rating. The proper way to gain money as Spartan is to saw the rings off the fingers of your dead enemies.
The huge advantage of Police + Sparta isn't the support, though that is certainly nice, it's the double police effect. Once you get non-lethal methods, 3 1-1-1 police can quell NINE drones (iirc, this is all from memory).
Yeah, the inefficiency hit is quite nasty. You either need creches everywhere or to be running knowledge.
What else would you be running anyway with Spartans?
Otherwise, without knowledge, of course that PS + FM doesn't really worth it!
Using police just ties down units to bases needlessly. You lose all your flexibility and you use up all your support as well. There's always another stragedy to quell drones and I always seek it no matter the faction I'm playing. I believe that any faction that can run FM ought to do so, at least till Green becomes a better choice later in the game. (this is off the top of my head without much specific thought but I think it's mostly valid)
Once nonlethal methods becomes available, using police is considerably more attractive, especially with the clean ability as well.
"Cutlery confused Stalin"
-BBC news
Indeed! Consider that at +3 police, 3 1/1/1 clean police will quell 9 drones, for the same initial investment that a Hologram Theatre would cost. That's certainly a considerable benefit, worth avoiding Free Market to retain. Granted, you need population to capitalize on that advantage fully, but at 2 rows each, your police can scale with your current population needs.
In addition, it's worth mentioning that while it takes 4 psych to mollify a super-drone, these hyper-dissidents are no different from ordinary drones to your police units. This, combined with your ability to pop boom without Golden Ages means that you can safely ignore the bureaucracy limits, and found bases EVERYWHERE. Efficiency problems? Pshaw. Specialists ignore corruption.
My point here is this: Sparta can be a great builder, but you can't approach them with the normal builder paradigm of high economy, luxuries and plentiful facilities. Instead, I recommend leveraging your disciplined followers to allow you to get by with the minimalist approach that gives the Spartans their name.
I came to the same conclusion, after all... unfortunately, it leads to constant war, since you ALWAYS have enemy bases nearby, to some extent.Yes, yes, I should point out that my recommendations do not appear in any particular order. Crushing the offending bases is by far the most preferrable solution.
It was my feeling even without mastering the tactical details... I mean, you should always emphatize your strenghts.My point here is this: Sparta can be a great builder, but you can't approach them with the normal builder paradigm of high economy, luxuries and plentiful facilities. Instead, I recommend leveraging your disciplined followers to allow you to get by with the minimalist approach that gives the Spartans their name.
My, I wish I had more time for this game.
It has the habit of sucking hours and hours at the beginning, but then at the end it gets slower, a bit less captivating, and it takes me ages to finish a single game...
Ehehe, how could this place NOT harbour some Firefly fansPS: Firefly RULES. Browncoats forever.
My advice for finishing is to get and stay on the offensive. I know you're playing Sparta like a builder, but I find that it's conquest that keeps me in the mid-late game. If all you find yourself doing is directing terraforming and assigning specialists, you will get bored. Sending your troops out to hammer your enemies nicely breaks up that monotony.My, I wish I had more time for this game.
It has the habit of sucking hours and hours at the beginning, but then at the end it gets slower, a bit less captivating, and it takes me ages to finish a single game...
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